Thread: ClearVue installation with Auto Blast Gates

What is this cLear vue thing?

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

What is this cLear vue thing?

Clearvueoz.com.au | Dust Extraction & Collection | Woodwork | Air quality

The claimed 1900 CFM is for the impeller and cyclone only and I believe its with with the motor running at 60 Hz.
As soon as any filters, ducting, bends and flexy are applied the flow rate will be reduced.
If only 50Hz is used the flow is automatically ~20% less and if only a 150 mm duct is used it will only carry ~1250 CFM at 50 Hz.

The benefit of the Max is in a multiuser facility where a larger trunkline can be used and from which 150mm connections can used simultaneously on more than one machine.

Setting up the Clearvue

The setup instructions recommended mounting the motor/impeller/cyclone assembly onto two right angle wooden brackets fix to the wall. This might work if you were starting to install the pipe from that end but because of the need to go through both walls, we had to work from both ends. Inside the workshop, the 250 pipe was attached to a metal purlin which was screwed to the rafters. It then had to angle down through the walls of both sheds and end up at the right height to connect to the cyclone inlet. I inserted a thick rubber sleeve at the workshop end of the last section of pipe to provide some flexibility, but not much. The only solution was to mount the ClearVue onto a free standing frame because the final connection required millimetric accuracy.

Clearvue on its frame.jpg Piped through both walls.jpg Shed pipes installed.jpg Shed pipes left view.jpg

The junctions are all 150s.

mick

Originally Posted by Glider

The only solution was to mount the ClearVue onto a free standing frame because the final connection required millimetric accuracy.

The other possibility if you have or can get it is a short length of large flexy. At the mens shed we used a shortish (500 mm) length of 9" flexy (with 9" sheet metal ducting either side) to make the connection. When 9'" ducting is used either side of the join, the low air speed means the joint can be offset by up to ~10 mm without interfering much with the flow

Originally Posted by BobL

The other possibility if you have or can get it is a short length of large flexy.

Thanks, Bob. That was considered but I was reluctant to insert any potential for turbulence close to, or at the point of entry to the cyclone. As it now stands, I have a 2.5 metre straight 250mm run into it.

The top of the motor ends up level with the bottom of the 200mm rafters leaving only 235mm above to lift the whole assembly into place. It must weigh >30 kgs. The large MDF plate upon which the motor sits meant a vertical lift and slide to position it. No room for pulleys and one slip would have been catastrophic. As Murphy would have it, the projected position on the wall had a rafter right in the way.

The benefit of the free standing frame is that it isolates any vibration from the walls. Having now fitted it, I dyna bolted the frame to the pad to avoid vibration, or its evil sister harmonic motion, creating movement. The PET(G) cyclone or specifically its grub screwed entry spout could easily crack in those circumstances.

mick

Installing Auto Blast Gates and ClearVue problems

As luck would have it, I learned that the auto blast gates were being designed a few months ago. Knowing the parties involved, I was sure it was going to be a quality product so I placed the first commercial order for six units, one for each junction in the shed. For the record, I'm only a customer and not part of the company.

They arrived fully assembled and only needed to be pushed into the female end of the 150mm junctions with a liberal coating of Vaseline. I still have to string up leads from the nearest 10A outlet but that'll be solved when I remove the 8 double fluoros and replace them with LED panels which require their own 3 pin plugs. The table saw, bandsaw and jointer/thicknesser will have fully automatic blast gates which deploy when the machine is switched on. The manual models will be used for the mitre saw, router table and the other multi-purpose inlet. They work like a beauty.

Having now put some load on the system, but without a dust box, we switched the Clearvue on for its first run. Dialling up the VFD...10, 20, 30, 35 and then at 40 Hz, disaster! We went from a loud hum to a cacophonous metallic grinding. What the devil is happening? Maybe the motor is over-revving and lifting the impeller or the motor fan is hitting its casing. It transpired that the steel plate above and welded to the impeller blades was interfering with the hex bolts which hold the motor down.

In order to test the ClearVue under full load, I made and fitted the dust collection box to the cyclone. With one blast gate open, I ran the dusty again. This time it ran smoothly at 48Hz but not a jot more. The question now remains whether I can accept the suction as it stands or pull it apart and relocate the taperlock holding the impeller blades further down the shaft. By eye, there's no more than 4mm of clearance now but I can't understand how the plate can move at all. Obviously there's some centrifugal forces at work but the steel plate is at least 5 mm thick. The taperlock is solid. At this point I'll plead guilty to missing the assembly instruction to allow 7mm clearance minimum. Mea culpa.

To support the "do nothing" argument, I vacuumed and wiped out the inside of the Carbatec table saw and then cut about 10 metres of 19mm ply. The inside of the machine looked like I had just cleaned it. Not a skerrick of dust to be seen! The jury is still out...

I've added a little local colour with a photo of the Green Wattle Creek bushfire smoke. It was 5 kms away from the farm before our local boys and the Forestry did a backburn to stop it. Phew!

mick

Blast Gates Installed.jpg Dust Collection Box.jpg Dust Box Rear View.jpg Bushfire smoke.jpg

Originally Posted by Glider

In order to test the ClearVue under full load, I made and fitted the dust collection box to the cyclone. With one blast gate open, I ran the dusty again.

This is actually a light load for a CVMX. Full load would with all Blast gates open.

This time it ran smoothly at 48Hz but not a jot more. The question now remains whether I can accept the suction as it stands or pull it apart and relocate the taperlock holding the impeller blades further down the shaft. By eye, there's no more than 4mm of clearance now but I can't understand how the plate can move at all. Obviously there's some centrifugal forces at work but the steel plate is at least 5 mm thick. The taperlock is solid. At this point I'll plead guilty to missing the assembly instruction to allow 7mm clearance minimum. Mea culpa.

Impellers no matter how thick the steel is made of will flex. While testing mine out for balance two years ago I made up a protective box from some 150 x 50 mm timber to completely surround the impeller. When I spun it up it made a hell of a racket and I indirectly determined it splayed out like a blooming flower by about 3 mm!

To support the "do nothing" argument, I vacuumed and wiped out the inside of the Carbatec table saw and then cut about 10 metres of 19mm ply. The inside of the machine looked like I had just cleaned it. Not a skerrick of dust to be seen! The jury is still out.

On a TS I would be less concerned about the cabinet as I would be about the loss of fine dust (which can't initially be seen) from the OH guard. Maybe once the whole system has been installed clean up the shed and lay out some sheets of white paper up in the ceiling and see what happens over a few weeks. I doubt you will have a prob but isolating which machine(s) is/are not collecting the fine dust is a PITA but my guess is you should not have a problem especially if you run the DC running for a few minutes after the last dust making activity.

Originally Posted by Glider

Thanks, Bob. That was considered but I was reluctant to insert any potential for turbulence close to, or at the point of entry to the cyclone. As it now stands, I have a 2.5 metre straight 250mm run into it.

That's good.

The top of the motor ends up level with the bottom of the 200mm rafters leaving only 235mm above to lift the whole assembly into place. It must weigh >30 kgs. The large MDF plate upon which the motor sits meant a vertical lift and slide to position it. No room for pulleys and one slip would have been catastrophic.

We had similar "lift " problem at the mens shed further hampered by the fact that it needed to be done inside an external enclosure. I ended up doing the lift by myself using a variety of things including a wonderful manual pallet lifter that provided about 1.2m of vertical lift and on top of that was added variety of objects to get to the correct height. The enclosure added a level of safety in that if the imperial did tip it was less likely to completely fall off.
See Mens Shed Dust Collection

I see you keep referring to using 250 mm ducting. Is it really 250mm or is it the nominal 9" PVC which is about 240mm ID?

Originally Posted by BobL

That's good.


We had similar "lift " problem at the mens shed further hampered by the fact that it needed to be done inside an external enclosure. I ended up doing the lift by myself using a variety of things including a wonderful manual pallet lifter that provided about 1.2m of vertical lift and on top of that was added variety of objects to get to the correct height. The enclosure added a level of safety in that if the imperial did tip it was less likely to completely fall off.
See Mens Shed Dust Collection

I see you keep referring to using 250 mm ducting. Is it really 250mm or is it the nominal 9" PVC which is about 240mm ID?

I did consider using one of those small manual forklifts, but when your workshop is 50 mins. drive from the nearest town with a hire shop, the idea was canned. Sound transmission is also a major concern so limiting it to airborne sound only was an added benefit.

I'm using DWV pipes and fittings. All sizes are nominal as 250, 150, 100 etc. and rarely if ever approach the exact nominal size. It's driven me spare but I've now found my way around the practice.

mick

Originally Posted by Glider

I did consider using one of those small manual forklifts, but when your workshop is 50 mins. drive from the nearest town with a hire shop, the idea was canned. Sound transmission is also a major concern so limiting it to airborne sound only was an added benefit.

Sure I understand.

I'm using DWV pipes and fittings.

Are you sure it's DWV? It looks like stormwater pipe to me. If not, for anyone else considering this sort of project, stormwater pipe and fittings are cheaper and just as effective as DVW for use in a dust extraction system.

All sizes are nominal as 250, 150, 100 etc. and rarely if ever approach the exact nominal size. It's driven me spare but I've now found my way around the practice.

Technically there's no 250 mm nominal size for either DWV or stormwater pipe, its nominally called 225mm and it turns out to be ~240mm ID and ~250 mm OD. Just wanted to keep that clear for any newbies reading this thread and try looking for 250 mm pipe.

The auto blast gates look really good - great to see them in actual use!

Connecting the machines

In some respects, this part is the most difficult of all. The first job was converting the table saw from 100 to 150mm outlet. For me it was a leap of faith to chop into the saw cabinet with an angle grinder knowing there was no turning back. Having done so, making a wooden cover plate with a piece of 150 pipe (female end) and sealing it with silicone was a piece of cake.

Table Saw 150 Connection.jpg Table Saw connected.jpg

The blade takeoff is still a WIP. I'm waiting for the plastic guard to be delivered from the Middle Kingdom. A 50 mm hose will run through a skyhook to a 45 degree elbow upstream from the blast gate. The plan is to cut a hole in its wall and insert the hose fitting.

The next easy fit was the Laguna bandsaw which has two 100mm ports top and bottom from the cabinet under the platform. A bell mouth hood behind the cutting surface will complete the arrangement although the blade teeth create a strong downwards moment which should carry most of the small particulate matter into the cabinet.

Bandsaw Pipe at Rear.jpg Bandsaw Connected.jpg

On to the Hammer A3 jointer/thicknesser which has a 125mm outlet. Converting this complex shaped device to 150mm is a major. So I've ordered a metal 125/150 reducer to assess its efficacy before having to consider paying Ezi Duct to make a custom outlet. I suspect the helical blades arrangement are less likely to produce pm<2.5 than straight blades.

The Kreg router table is currently having its lower box made and the cabinet for the compound mitre saw design is still pending.

I plan to buy a device to measure particulate matter as probably the only way to measure the efficacy of my system on each machine.

More later...

mick

Originally Posted by BobL

Are you sure it's DWV? It looks like stormwater pipe to me. If not, for anyone else considering this sort of project, stormwater pipe and fittings are cheaper and just as effective as DVW for use in a dust extraction system.

You're probably right, Bob. It probably is stormwater pipe. The guys at the hardware shop in Oberon aren't plumbing specialists so they didn't know either.

I understand the concern for newbies and the need for descriptive accuracy. The whole pipe thing is a minefield.

mick

Originally Posted by Glider

You're probably right, Bob. It probably is stormwater pipe. The guys at the hardware shop in Oberon aren't plumbing specialists so they didn't know either.

LOL

I understand the concern for newbies and the need for descriptive accuracy. The whole pipe thing is a minefield.

I have been think for some time of writing an FAQ on PVC ducting - now that I'm sitting around with a broken ankle and little else to do might be the time to do it

mick it looks pretty good but I'm in the fix the impeller camp.

It appears from the picture in post 4 that there is just enough room between the rafters and the roof tin to slip in a steel bar. You could loop a strap or rope over it to pull on and a couple nooses around the motor. Boat trailer winches are pretty cheap here but we have a little more water than you. A come along or the winch on a truck (ute?) would work too. Once the motor/impeller are high enough a couple boards slipped under should let you slide the beast aside to lower or adjust the impeller there.

Looking forward to more.
Pete