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  1. #1
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    Default Combo Jointer thicknesser dust extraction

    Hi all,

    Ive owned plenty of machinery in the past that ive used a variety of 1-5HP dust extraction machinery with in previous workshops that have worked just fine so i have an appreciation of why its needed and what kind of setup i should be aspiring too given the right workshop conditions etc. Ive been thrown a curvball with my most recent incarnation of a workshop though so i wanted to clarify something with the forum.

    Currently i operate my workshop under a large car port in a house im renting that i've adopted to, nothing is permanent, everything on wheels and when not in use under cover as i'm in Northern NSW on the coast. I primarily operate with hand tools but when i do use the band saw i don't tend to bother with dust extraction because noise is my largest concern, its loud enough as it is and since i literally don't have any walls or doors air flow is amazing obviously. I sweep up my shavings and any dust that comes off the bandsaw or lathe just floats away with the breeze and doesn't linger which is great.

    But now Ive recently picked up a combo helical head jointer/thicknesser it would have to be the biggest creator of dust out of all the machines i have now. Since noise is my biggest constraint & space is a premium along with mobility i wanted to know if anyone has used a Festool vacuum with an adapter for dust extraction on a 100mm pipe? All i want is for the larger chips to be taken out of the dust chute so minimizes potential damage to the jointer. i figure the finer dust wont be hanging around anyway due to the lack of walls i'm operating under.

    Im trying to avoid the whole investment of 150mm pipes and large dust extraction when i wont be using this combo machine everyday as i primarily am hand tool driven for most operations. using the combo for smaller material for boxes and some small carcass dimension to help me from time to time it will see pretty light work.

    So what sort of "minimal viable product" type solutions have people had previously given my situation. I also have a festool domino and sander so it makes sense for me to start looking at these vacuums, im hoping it would be sufficient for the light work on the jointer also.

    I'm also open to getting the bucket separator dust deputy before the festool vacuum if thats needed also.

    Thanks in advance everyone

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  3. #2
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    At only a 'max' 'claimed' 137cfm I don't think a Festool shop vac will have any chance. In addition to the lack of flow rate the small hose and intake etc of the Festool DC will just clog up constantly. If you put a 100mm hose on it then the airflow velocity will be very slow and unlikely to pull the chips created by the planer/thicknesser.

    I don't have an answer for you but I don't think a Festool DC is it.

    Cheers, Dom

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    At only a 'max' 'claimed' 137cfm I don't think a Festool shop vac will have any chance. In addition to the lack of flow rate the small hose and intake etc of the Festool DC will just clog up constantly. If you put a 100mm hose on it then the airflow velocity will be very slow and unlikely to pull the chips created by the planer/thicknesser.

    I don't have an answer for you but I don't think a Festool DC is it.

    Cheers, Dom
    Thanks Dom, yeah makes sense, i guess im just considering what options i would have if i did have a smaller footprint DC unit that can support both thee 100mm pipe for the DC but then be used with the festool or other 'vac' style equipment? really dont want to be buying multiple extraction units for different purposes.

    ideally dont want any dust extraction because i just enjoy the hand oriented shavings i simply sweep up into the garden or compost bin etc. it adds another dependency of things i have to own and take up floor space. But at the same time acknowledge i need help to process these dense Aussie hardwoods i have if i want to continue cant do it all by hand as all the timber i buys rough sawn and dont want to damage any machinery simply by having it sit stuck within the escape chute.

    i can see that im asking to have my cake and eat it too haha but im interested to hear what small, compact effective units people have come by that have setup in a rental before and the above constraints are in place.

    Cheers,
    Nathan

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by delbs View Post
    i can see that im asking to have my cake and eat it too haha but im interested to hear what small, compact effective units people have come by that have setup in a rental before and the above constraints are in place.

    Unfortunately terms likes "small and compact" are not in the same parts of the dictionary as "effective dust control". Planer thicknessers are excellent dust generators. To be honest a single 6" duct plus everything needed to suck on it is about the only way to solve the dust these things generate.

    Use the green column for safety and look at what is recommended to extract from a planer and thicnknesser
    Machinerydustflowrequirements.jpg

  6. #5
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    Default

    pretty sure those types of machines also like decent dust extractions to keep the chips moving away from the work piece so it doesn't clog up and affect the finish/performance.

    I'd be looking at a generic 2hp DC minimum, even on the 100mm hose just to be able to pull the chips away.

  7. #6
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    So it seems a 2hp dusty on casters with a pleated filter might be sufficient for the chips for now. Since it’s under the carport I’m not too concerned about the small stuff with the pleated filter also.

    Will suffice for now until I buy a workshop with a few bedrooms

    Cheers
    Nathan

  8. #7
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    Gah now looking at pleated filter 2HP units I see the cyclone 2HP units WITH pleated filters and drums all on a mobile base hmmmmmm

  9. #8
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    hey Nathan,

    i have direct experience here. When i first bought my table saw i sealed it up and tried to use a reducer to adapt my shoo vac to fit. It wasnt a festool, but rather a Hilti that has even better flow rate and suction as it’s designed for concrete dust and slurry. Regardless of how beaut it was, it simply doesn’t flow enough air. It’s max suction/vacuum that it can produce is significantly greater than a dust extractor, but with regards to volume of air that it moves each second, it is far far less and definitely not even enough for a toy sized table saw, let alone a jointer/planer. You’d also get significant clogging of those wondrous chips in the small diameter hoses especially when they loop around and have tight bends, as shop vacs are designed to handle finer dust.

    Sorry to be another bringer of sad news boss.

    cheers,
    Siggy


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by delbs View Post
    Gah now looking at pleated filter 2HP units I see the cyclone 2HP units WITH pleated filters and drums all on a mobile base hmmmmmm
    Just a heads up - back in 2013 I visited over 20 sheds to test their dust extraction systems.
    The ages of the DCs ranges from 2 months to >20 years old, but they all leaked to some extent or other.

    One of the main sources of dust leaks were the seals around the DC collection bags and filters. Even the tiniest ruck in the plastic collection bag or a bit of dirt left behind on a seal was enough to let fine dust thru. Often the fine dust could not be seen in the air but evidence of it was everywhere with surfaces covered with find dust deposits.
    The other source is holes in the bags and filters. The rapid air flow continuously swirls sawdust around inside the collection bags which abrades the plastic and/or slivers/splinters punch tiny holes in the plastic.
    If the plastic collection bags are not emptied when they get about 1/2 full this sailing action extends significantly into the filter and can do the same thing to filters

    Interestingly, the DCs that leaked the most were older ones on wheels that were moved around inside sheds, probably because they eventually all get physical damaged by being bumped and bashed around or accidentally getting poked with stuff.

    All this is why it's far better to
    Locate the DC outside the shed.
    OR
    enclose the DC in an air tight enclosure inside a shed and vent the enclosure outside the shed.
    This is one of the biggest improvements you can make to dust control inside a shed.

    Now unfortunately this type of setup does not come for free.
    Locating a DC outside a shed or fixing a DC to a specific spot inside a shed and then running ducting to machinery means using longer ducting runs.
    Long runs, of especially 100mm ducting and extensive use of flexy will seriously stifle air flow.
    To be able to get the required air flow, use of 150mm ducting is essential and 2HP DCs have to be modified to make use od 150mm ducting.
    A "How To" for this is in one of the stickies in the dust forum.
    Extra inför is available in the Ducting FAQ sticky

    To maximise air flow I would not use a cyclone on a 2HP DC - you need about a 4HP DC to make efficient use of a cyclone.
    Cyclones rob air flow - some significantly - they will keep your filters cleaner but that's in part because they simply do not collect enough air/dust to begin with and this ends up all over your shed.

  11. #10
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    Thanks BobL

    Appreciate your testing you’ve had the opportunity to do pretty invaluable data to capture

    Here’s a photo of the carport I work under for now. Essentially outside already



    Ignore how things are setup as this was taken when I was just moving in. I use drop sheets and rust prevention oil on surfaces I don’t use all the time but everything’s on wheels as the floor can get wet with decent rain in certain areas

    So I’m looking for something good enough to get by as I can’t have a 4hp machine unless it’s on wheels and can’t install it anywhere permanently inside or out

    What would others do ?

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by delbs View Post
    What would others do ?
    I think you will be OK in that situation - my guess is you are not working 40 hours a week in there?

  13. #12
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    Nah not at all mate just a hobby. I work in IT so that’s where my 40hrs are spent. I’ll probably get 4 hrs a week approx in this carport

    So a pleated filter 2hp unit for chip extraction would be ok given the open aspects of my setup? I don’t think I can afford a 4hp cyclone at the moment and if 2hp cyclone isn’t worth it.

    once I buy a new house I’ll look into that and a more permanent setup more thoroughly

  14. #13
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    I guess I’m considering this unit with the pleated filter as it’s more affordable, I’ll only be using one machine at a time on it not two or more

    If there’s no benefit to having a 2hp cyclone unit due to lack of HP and permanency I’ll wait until I’m more established in my next workshop for that setup and look to place it outside.

    Then I could get some adapters to use this on my festool and other smaller machinery. Budget,space,noise constraints at the moment make for interesting product selection

    Cheers
    Nathan

  15. #14
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    you can always look at a cheap 2nd hand unit to at least get you by, they're often had for around the $100 - $200 mark.

  16. #15
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    Agreed, have had a look around at least on Facebook marketplace but they’re all 4-5 hours north of me up in QLD. But I’ll keep a lookout

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