Thread: A new commercial product for enhancing dust extraction on a router table

Originally Posted by Gwhat

.... if our current order bank is anything to go by, this is another great Incra product.

That is only an indication that the orderers either believe or hope that the product will be great. So, no, I don't think it's anything to go by.

Performance, ease of use and how widely applicable the product is, is what the hat hangs on.

However, the following would be true:
"if our current order bank is anything to go by, this is another great Incra marketing strategy."

Thanks for posting the videa

The dust collection does indeed "look" good, and is what I would expect visually especially when blind cuts are being made.

The problem remains that the visible dust shown in the video is not the stuff that is likely to impact on an operators health and I will remain somewhat skeptical until I see measurements using a dust particle counter taken near the table. Especially after an extended bout of routing.

The rest of the design looks neat and tidy.

I still think that a cross flow design will be more effective for fine dust than trying to pull all the air through the narrow router plate holes. The cross sflow design has the added advantage in that it will scavenge any escaped fine dust from the vicinity of the router as long as the DC is running.

Fine dust is where it is at, and Incra have made no attempt to measure that. The air volume through the plate would be fairly low before the machining starts and when the plate is covered it must plummet. They had the opportunity in what was a clean room set up for the video and to prove how it affected micro dust levels they should have measured after the test. In my experience the Yanks as a rule are only interested in one thing, large debris collection with the micro dust usually ignored. The low air flow through the plate must affect the temps in the box though most machining operations are not that long. Graham, get them to repeat the test and measure the background dust levels and video that.


Router tables require a multi faceted approach and big air flow to capture the fine dust released into the atmosphere by the cutter. The Incra does part of the job well but not the whole job, or rather what I should say is that it does not seem that it would from my experience.

Originally Posted by BobL

Thanks for posting the videa

The dust collection does indeed "look" good, and is what I would expect visually especially when blind cuts are being made.

The problem remains that the visible dust shown in the video is not the stuff that is likely to impact on an operators health and I will remain somewhat skeptical until I see measurements using a dust particle counter taken near the table. Especially after an extended bout of routing.

The rest of the design looks neat and tidy.

I still think that a cross flow design will be more effective for fine dust than trying to pull all the air through the narrow router plate holes. The cross sflow design has the added advantage in that it will scavenge any escaped fine dust from the vicinity of the router as long as the DC is running.

My thinking is likewise.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the Incra approach, it is obviously handy when cutting grooves, but I believe it is likely inadequate by itself if we are concerned with catching the invisible dust. In that case, a strong draft of air across the table (perhaps with an overhead hood) combined with a draft from under the table would likely be a superior approach. A 150mm line to the fence area combined with a 100mm line under the table (similar to what we do with table saws) seems likely to be closer to optimum.

Unfortunately, I don't have a router, I have a Jet spindle moulder, so this product is of no use to me, but it has got me thinking again about the value of putting a 100mm line on the cabinet to pull air down through the table.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Fine dust is where it is at, and Incra have made no attempt to measure that. ......... The Incra does part of the job well but not the whole job, or rather what I should say is that it does not seem that it would from my experience.

Whilst I haven't read every detail of the product provided by Incra I cannot see that it claims to be the complete dust collection solution (especially when looking at the fine dust). The promo video seems to be targeting the market looking for a cleaner workshop and work surface, not necessarily the market that want to collect every speck of dust (visible or not). It is clear from the video that it isn't even possible to capture all of the larger shavings in all instances, with a number of occasions where there is visible chips flying in random directions.

It has already been commented that for a complete solution the router table needs to be attacked from a number of different points, below, above, across etc so is it really possible for an aftermarket product that is trying to work with a number of different manufacturers tables and custom made tables to cater for all the dust generated.

Not much point getting worked up over a product that isn't achieving something it isn't claiming that it will achieve. If Incra were marketing this as the all in one, capture everything (including invisible dust) router system then sure it would be worth demanding better testing, but given they are not I think it a little rough to be asking for such things.

Stinky (a bit of a fan of Incra gear!)

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Fine dust is where it is at, and Incra have made no attempt to measure that. The air volume through the plate would be fairly low before the machining starts and when the plate is covered it must plummet. They had the opportunity in what was a clean room set up for the video and to prove how it affected micro dust levels they should have measured after the test. In my experience the Yanks as a rule are only interested in one thing, large debris collection with the micro dust usually ignored. The low air flow through the plate must affect the temps in the box though most machining operations are not that long. Graham, get them to repeat the test and measure the background dust levels and video that.


Router tables require a multi faceted approach and big air flow to capture the fine dust released into the atmosphere by the cutter. The Incra does part of the job well but not the whole job, or rather what I should say is that it does not seem that it would from my experience.

Indeed Chris, and this is where it becomes doubly dangerous. Because the operator "sees" most of the visible dust disappearing they think they are safe, and so are tempted not to use a mask, or take it off straight after the dusty activity has stopped, thus exposing themselves to all the micro dust that can't be seen.

Hi

I agree that the CleanSweep isn't a 110% solution that will pick up all particles of all sizes, those of us who have spent time over the years trying to solve the issue of dust collection from router tables, particularly at shows, will understand that this 'ticks most boxes' when used in conjunction with normal good practice.

Incra don't make any claims other than it is a vast improvement on what is normally used.

Regards

Grahame

Hi

The CleanSweeps have arrived, the answer to the question 'Will my router fit' is............... 360mm tall, 330mm wide, 280mm deep are the internal dimensions. Big enough for any router I've got.

Regards

Grahame

I bought a CleanSweep but with all the other things going on establishing my first workshop it sat in the box for many months. I have now finished my router table and have had a chance to evaluate the CleanSweep.

It is not ideal for my cyclone setup because it is made for a 4" hose and I got it before I knew a lot about dust extraction but because it was sitting there I decided to use it. The CleanSweep assembles very easily and attaches to the underside of my Professional Woodworking router table top with screws. I have it connected to the dust system with one 4" hose to the CleanSweep and one to the router fence which can be operated independently.

I think one drawback of the CleanSweep maybe if it is assembled as per the instructions there will be insufficient make up air drawn into the CleanSweep particularly if a small router plate insert is used. To overcome this I used packers between the top of the CleanSweep and the underside of the router table which allows a lot more air to be drawn in. This seems to be very successful because no dust at all is left in the bottom of the CleenSweep.

The 4" pipe on the router fence also seems to be removing large amounts of dust leaving the table clear after an operation. The only cut that leaves dust is dadoing where the dust sprays out along the dado line. However, according to a woodworking friend this is normal.

While it is not ideal a la BobL's and John Samuel's methods I think the CleenSweep is pretty successful at removing dust on my router table.

Originally Posted by safari

I bought a CleanSweep but with all the other things going on establishing my first workshop it sat in the box for many months. I have now finished my router table and have had a chance to evaluate the CleanSweep.

It is not ideal for my cyclone setup because it is made for a 4" hose and I got it before I knew a lot about dust extraction but because it was sitting there I decided to use it. . . . .

One thing that visual tests can't confirm is what the invisible dust is doing in a situation like this.

Seeing as you have a Clearvue that will draw ~1250 cfm through 6" ducting and the most that will go through the 4" duct is ~400 CFM that means the cyclone has about 800 cfm spare capacity. What I would recommend with this spare capacity is place/dangle a naked 4" duct on/above the table. It won't affect the performance of the other duct and it will help capture escaped fine dust from above the table.

Thanks BobL for the suggestion. Yes it would be easy enough to add a third four inch pipe but what I think I might do is put in another 6 inch Y and have it swivelling so i can use it on both the router table and the band saw.

Originally Posted by safari

Thanks BobL for the suggestion. Yes it would be easy enough to add a third four inch pipe but what I think I might do is put in another 6 inch Y and have it swivelling so i can use it on both the router table and the band saw.

By all means try it with a 6" but you will almost certainly lose suction on the under router table 4" duct. The suck below the table may still be enough for your needs, you will just have to try it..