Thread: Country CV install

Lucky you! Gett5ing to start from scratch.

The photos I put up in the last post were about work done 2 days ago - yesterday we installed the VFD and Trunk line.

Before we could do that we had to dismantle the old 6 and 4" system.

The flat sections of most of the old system were well fairly clogged.
Most of the flat sections of ducting had at least this much sawdust sitting in the bottom of the ducting
gunk.JPG

This shows the limitation of using even a modified 2HP system with long (8m) ducts of 6" ducting and the fact that only a couple of machines had 6" ports - most had 4"
This results in linear air speeds that are too slow to keep sawdust suspended and it falls out and clogs ducting.

The VFD installation is nothing special and looks like this
Wall/conduit VFD-Motor cable gland still needs to be installed - no chance of purchasing anything during a easter weekend in the country.
P shows the two 50 x 100 mm pines studs that go between the middle and top girt inside the shed - the cyclone frame outside "stand off" connects to these.
VFD.JPG

~9m long x 9" trunk line up.
We're temporarily using some budget level back plastic 6' gates on some of the ducting arms but have ordered metal gates that have not yet arrived
Trunkline.JPG

That was yesterday - Chris (main ladder climber) was not there so it was up to his mum and I.

The first thing I made this morning was an 6" port adapter for the 12" planer thicky.
My usual "made from a Stainless steel clothes drier drum" offering
PlanerThicky1.JPG
PlanerThicky2.JPG

PlanerThicky3.JPG


Next more work on setting up ducting arms.

Today we did 5 arms before we ran out of blast gates and 6" ducting.

Bandsaw, Woodwizz, belt sander, SCMS and planer thicknesser.

To go are Table saw, Spindle holder, lathe and spare.
There's only a 4" flex on the SCMS for the moment as we ran out of adapters for the 6" flex

Wholeshed.JPG

I made a bunch of endcaps out of MDF to seal off the unfinished arms
ENdcaps.JPG

The table saw and the bin setup I'm leaving to Chris.

The main hold up was insufficient Elbows, 45s and the blast gates but the bulk of it is up and they should be able to complete the rest.

Originally Posted by BobL

The first thing I made this morning was an 6" port adapter for the 12" planer thicky.
My usual "made from a Stainless steel clothes drier drum" offering
PlanerThicky1.JPG
PlanerThicky2.JPG

PlanerThicky3.JPG


Next more work on setting up ducting arms.

Did you cut the 125MM outlet off the machine hood or is it still under the new adaptor?

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Did you cut the 125MM outlet off the machine hood or is it still under the new adaptor?

The 125mm outlet was constructed of riveted on plastic.
The rivets were drilled out revealing a (130 x165mm) or 214 cm^2 opening.
The 125mm outlet was slightly smaller than 125mm, but assuming it was 125mm that's 123 cm^2
150 mm diam is ducting 176 cm^2

Originally Posted by BobL

The 125mm outlet was constructed of riveted on plastic.
The rivets were drilled out revealing a (130 x165mm) or 214 cm^2 opening.
The 125mm outlet was slightly smaller than 125, but assuming it was 125mm that's 123 cm^2
150 mm diam is 176 cm^2

I measured the old Planer/Thicky outlet (see picture below) and it was only 114mm (or 102 cm^2)
So the new opening (150mm diameter = 176 cm^2) is substantially bigger.

PlanerThicky4.JPG

Had a bit of spare time this morning so I made a start on the bin lid setup.
They had nothing immediately suitable for the lid so I glued 2 pieces of 9mm thick ply together to make a top.
Then I added two more layers of ply to the middle section of the lid to make up a 36 mm thick flange section into which a 150 mm hole was cut.
The piece of 150 flex connecting the bin to the cyclone bottom is a real tight fit into this hole

The lid gasket material we used was a piece of sponge rubber yoga mat - seems to work a treat.
Having the bottom of the cyclone a bit higher than usual (~130 mm) above the lid makes it much easier to instal and get the bin out.
I've suggested the addition of a couple of chains - one front and one at the back of the lid to hold the lid up while the bin is being changed.

The plastic sheet is a temp cover until Chris can complete a more permanent one,
CVbinsetup.JPG

My work is done.

BTW the noise outside the shed is 92dB at one meter at 50Hz.
Inside the shed is also pretty loud at 84dB (at 1m frm shed wall) - much of this is transmitted via the very drummy colour bond shed cladding.
The owners are at least going to insulate the shed wall, but also thinking now a fully weather proof structure might be the way to go.

Originally Posted by BobL

Had a bit of spare time this morning so I made a start on the bin lid setup.
They had nothing immediately suitable for the lid so I glued 2 pieces of 9mm thick ply together to make a top.
Then I added two more layers of ply to the middle section of the lid to make up a 36 mm thick flange section into which a 150 mm hole was cut.
The piece of 150 flex connecting the bin to the cyclone bottom is a real tight fit into this hole

The lid gasket material we used was a piece of sponge rubber yoga mat - seems to work a treat.
Having the bottom of the cyclone a bit higher than usual (~130 mm) above the lid makes it much easier to instal and get the bin out.
I've suggested the addition of a couple of chains - one front and one at the back of the lid to hold the lid up while the bin is being changed.

Bob, is the ply lid just sitting on top of the bin? No latch/fastener of any type to hold it in place? I suppose suction holds it in place when the cyclone is running.

Bob, we all need a friend like you to come help us complete our dust collection systems and provide expert advice. Seeing the details of the install, especially the exposed outdoor install was very helpful.

I have searched for this topic on this forum, but haven't really found an answer. In the US, metal duct work, especially in larger sizes, is less expensive or about the same as PVC. Metal has the advantage of being lighter and many more fittings, such as long radius elbows available. I'm not talking about the ridiculously expensive Norfab stuff with clamping joints. I'm talking about regular 26 gauge HVAC ducting that comes in snap lock or spiral. All of these Australian installations I see, even the ones with huge ducts, use PVC. Is this just a regional difference, like metal is expensive in Australia or you guys don't have readily available HVAC ducting there? Or is there a technical reason to always use PVC, like the walls of the pipe are smoother?

Mark

I don’t really know the answer to that but my guess is a lot of it would be to do with the fact that central HVAC sees a lot less use in residential construction in Australia compared with the USA. So there’s less demand, less manufacturing, less economy of scale in the supply chain, fewer qualified installers etc. Most metal HVAC duct I sees is in commercial buildings.

Residential ducted airconditioning is far from unheard of in Australia but it’s also not the norm here; split AC units are much more common by comparison. And while some parts of Australia do experience cool winters, it’s really nothing like what you’d see in cold parts of the USA. So central heating with all the associated ducting is not common.

For a significant portion of the Australian mainland, a warm sweater is enough to see you through most winters. We’re talking warm-temperate, sub-tropical and tropical climates for much of the country.

I still remember my sense of wonder the first time I saw snow in Australia(I was 32) [emoji23]

There is no HVAC industry here that supplies metal ducting in residential houses so PVC has become the default material. Any ducted residential AC is always installed using flexible ducting and never metal. All our underground plumbing/sewage/electrical installation is done in PVC also. Because of this some sizes such as 7" in either PVC or Metal are simply not available or at least not readily available. Another peculiarity is that most dust extraction systems such as cyclones nearly always vent to atmosphere unless there is a special need. Bag style systems get parked outside or should be as they are notoriously bad at everything except leaking dust.

Originally Posted by mwells

Bob, we all need a friend like you to come help us complete our dust collection systems and provide expert advice. Seeing the details of the install, especially the exposed outdoor install was very helpful.

Thanks. I don't usually pitch in and participate in these installs but as these folks have been our friends for ~40 years so I though I would make an exception. The farm itself is "neat as a pin" and locals poke gentle fun at their tidiness but it makes it a great place to visit and they have all the farm toys you would want to play with.

I have searched for this topic on this forum, but haven't really found an answer. In the US, metal duct work, especially in larger sizes, is less expensive or about the same as PVC. Metal has the advantage of being lighter

I have played around with various sizes of metal ducting (I even have 2 x 2m lengths of 6" in my own DC system) and my experience is it is about the same weight as "stormwater" PVC, but lighter than DWV PVC - I still have some 6" metal behind my shed and will do a weight for weight comparison later today.

I should add that the trunkline went up without anything holding the ducting and fittings together. The cheap blast gates (which will be replaced by metal ones) had short ill fitting flanges and these had one Tek screw add to hold these on. At the end we added cloth tape to the major external bend junction from the cyclone to the shed, and around the duct/flex connections.

In terms of the expense of PVC, it really depends where its purchased, big box hardware store can be very expensive whereas specialised PVC plumbing supply stores are usually much cheaper. Here in my state PVC ducting is widely used in the huge mining industries all over the state and I buy mine from such a supplier (pipeline.com.au). As far as this install was concerned Chris the Carpenter bought the PVC through his Tradelink account and got a 'ripper of a deal" from them. I have never seen prices this low for PVC.

RE: bin lid.
Yes bin lid was just sitting there but the flex used for the bin top/cyclone bottom connection is very stiff and over length so under significant compression, and the foam yoga mat used as a gasket was quite soft. I have suggested that add some sort of tensioning mechanism or weights to help seal the lid.

Just did the weight/length comparison of the 6" galv ducting versus the 6" stormwater PVC.
Galv was 2.62 kg/m, PVC was 2.25 kg/m so PVC is about 15% lighter.