Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Cyclone options

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default Cyclone options

    Over the last few years, I've acquired a few different pieces of gear that I intend to use for dust extraction in my non commercial workshop. I've read the Pentz site, and various threads here and have arrived with essentially two options. There may be others and I'd be happy to hear your thoughts.

    Ceiling height = 2.7m (to bottom of joists), 3.0m between exposed joists.
    I'll need 18m of ducting from most distant machine (36" bandsaw) to external exhaust point.
    I have 3 phase power.

    I want to use a 240L domestic wheelie bin (stands 1,060mm high) for swarf collection due to ease of movement. Foil lining and fire suppression can be achieved.
    I intend to use 6" PVC ducting.

    I have a free standing cast iron blower with straight vane alloy impellor (per Model B60 attached) with a Toshiba 3kW 2850rpm motor (pulley driven so can change the drive ratio). Blower alone weighs 70+kg, so floor level mounting only. 160mm inlet and outlet.
    B60 blower.pngB_Series_Exhaust_Fans_Direct_Drive_Specifications3[1].pdf

    I also have an ASEA dual speed, flange mount motor (2,720rpm @ 3.7kW & 410rpm @ 0.6kw) that could be mounted above a cyclone. I could set this up with a Dahlander connection with with a current sensing relay and delay to switch between idle and run speeds. I do not want to go down the VFD route. I can fabricate and balance a steel impeller and volute for this motor.
    $_571.jpg$_574.jpg$_57.jpg3GZE500112-961.005.pdf

    I will be fabricating the cyclone, which will be mounted in a separate room from the workshop, and exhausted externally, with due consideration for my neighbours.

    So here are the options as I see them

    Option #1
    Use the free standing cast iron blower with pulley drive (ratio?), and fabricate a cyclone (this would allow maximum cyclone height, as I could use the extra 300mm headroom between the joists for routing the cyclone exhaust to the blower. Single speed arrangement (without use of a VFD).


    Option #2
    Fabricate a straight vane impeller (15" x 5") or (16" x 5") and volute above a cyclone for use with the 2 speed motor. This would necessitate a shorter cyclone, as I'm not prepared to mount the motor between the joists, limited by the 2.7m ceiling. (Approx fan curves from Cincinnati https://www.cincinnatifan.com/catalo...2-internet.pdf)


    I'd welcome your thoughts and discussion on the options and cyclone dimensions (1D3D, 2D2D or other proportions).

    Thanks and regards
    John
    Last edited by jcge; 24th June 2016 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Added blower specs

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
    Posts
    1,326

    Default

    In case you weren't aware, you can mount the Cyclone on an angle to fit under a lower ceiling. The downside is loosing some floor / wall space. Some of which you would gain back if you used the belt driven fan on the floor under the cyclone. Slightly less efficient than mounting the fan and motor on top of the cyclone but you wouldn't need to fabricate a fan and housing.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,261

    Default

    Photos of the blowers and motors would help. I don't get the fascination with wheelie bins, you can put any bin on wheels. Wheelie bins are in general hard to make air tight and I know several installations that have suffered the problem. You sound like a man who likes a challenge, how about a bin with an auger in it, turn the auger on and the bin empties into a trailer or wheelie bin etc. I have tried to interest a few people in this idea to no avail so far.
    CHRIS

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Saskatoon, SK, Canada.
    Posts
    1,326

    Default

    I like the auger idea especially to put the waste outside when you live in a cold climate. There are lots of sources for augers, like the ones used to move chicken feed from the storage bins into the barns. I'd also like to see a practical puck or pellet maker for amateur woodworkers. Both of these might be better discussed in separate threads rather than here though.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by QC Inspector View Post
    In case you weren't aware, you can mount the Cyclone on an angle to fit under a lower ceiling. The downside is loosing some floor / wall space. Some of which you would gain back if you used the belt driven fan on the floor under the cyclone. Slightly less efficient than mounting the fan and motor on top of the cyclone but you wouldn't need to fabricate a fan and housing.
    Thanks QC Inspector. I wasn't aware that you could mount the cyclone on an angle.

    There is definitely a tradeoff between using the existing blower and additional fabrication of top mounted fan.

    Appreciate your response.

    Regards
    John

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Chris

    I do accept there's a few challenges to using the wheelie bin, and the auger idea sounds interesting...it would perform a similar function to a rotary air lock (which also negates the need for good bin sealing).

    I've added some pics and specs for the equipment which may assist others contributing as well.

    Thanks for responding.

    Regards
    John
    Last edited by jcge; 24th June 2016 at 04:07 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    26,885

    Default

    I would avoid any straight vane impellers as they are much noisier than the curved vane variety.
    The two I have measured were close to 100 dB at 50Hz and over 100 at 60Hz.
    I know you are not going to use a VFD but you may want to up the speed of the impeller with pulleys to get the extra pressure.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,261

    Default

    The reason I brought up the auger idea is that it would be a convenient way to use a smaller drum as emptying the drum would not be so much of an issue. I could envisage if a smaller drum had to be used that an auger could be set up to move the waste to a bigger drum or even a trailer parked under it. Best of luck with the build, it will be interesting I am sure.
    CHRIS

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default

    BobL - thanks for raising the issue of noise between straight and curved vane impellers. I appreciate you input.

    Regards,
    John

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dayboro Qld
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Photos of the blowers and motors would help. I don't get the fascination with wheelie bins, you can put any bin on wheels. Wheelie bins are in general hard to make air tight and I know several installations that have suffered the problem. You sound like a man who likes a challenge, how about a bin with an auger in it, turn the auger on and the bin empties into a trailer or wheelie bin etc. I have tried to interest a few people in this idea to no avail so far.

    How would you make the auger airtight?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,261

    Default

    Stephen do you mean the drive? I would drive it through sealed bearings using a flexible shaft and the exit for the sawdust can be a sealed removable cap which wouldn't present many problems. If the auger was placed parallel and close to the floor feeding a rising tube it should work fairly well but any lumps of timber could present a problem if they were too big. I have never refined the idea as such but I reckon it is doable and ideal for small commercial operators. I had a customer in WA who i thought might do it but as far as I know it never happened.
    CHRIS

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Thornton NSW
    Posts
    456

    Default

    Wheelie bins aren't hard to seal, you can fit automotive rubbers on the lip around the top. Little bit of silicone to hold it in place and seal the join, works fine. Commercial units like the Felder RL's use an EPDM seal for the bin to the unit if I recall correctly, so not so different. Make a lid to match the dimensions of the bin top and use toggle hasp latches front and back to hold in place. This ensures it's easy to remove, and the latches are out of harms way whe the truck picks it up to empty. if you get a white bin, they're translucent so you can see how full it is. Unless you lack the height for a wheelie bin and cyclone above it, I don't get why you wouldn't use one ;-)

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Thanks richmond68 for the suggestion of automotive seal (pinchweld) for the lid of the wheelie bin.

    I'm planning on cutting a hole in the standard bin lid and fitting a rubber sheet diaphragm style gasket that will seal around the cyclone bottom outlet. Wheel the bin in place, partially open the lid to push the seal over the outlet pipe, and lower the lid to leave the diaphragm seal upwardly inverted to withstand negative pressure. Maybe a couple of occy straps to hold the lid against the lip seal if required.

    John

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rockhampton
    Age
    60
    Posts
    2,235

    Default

    Hi John, your height is more than likely going to be an issue, my cyclone is 400 dia and the cone length is 3d (1200) so by the time you get a wheelie bin under the cone there isn't much room for the rest of it.​I put mine outside. BP from memory does say a 1.86d length cone also works well, I made my vac cyclone cone length to this spec and seems to be ok. If my understanding of cone shape is correct it comes down to the velocity of the particles spinning around inside the cone and the mass of the particles. for e.g. a light mass particle spinning at high speed in a wide cone (1.86d) is more likely to remain inside the cone and not fall out the btm whereas a large particle spinning at slow speed in a 3d cone will more than likely fall, centrifugal force v gravity essentially, there's some good vids of cone designs with animations in utube land that shows it a bit more.
    Have you got some pics of the fan/blower that you already have?



    Pete

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    259

    Default

    Thanks for your feedback Pete - I had a look at you vac cyclone build, and more recent fan housing posts. Some very good fabrication tips there !! Thanks.

    I'm working with 9' floor to ceiling height, so think I'll be able to do a 1D2D at 15" diameter, and fit the bin in as well.

    Here's the existing blower (dimensionally identical to the datasheet posted above for model B60).

    IMG_2133.JPGIMG_2124.JPGIMG_2126.JPG

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. what are my options?
    By Albert in forum WOODWORK - GENERAL
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11th October 2014, 09:06 PM
  2. What are my options here?
    By Reno RSS Feed in forum BRICKWORK, CONCRETING, PAVING, RENDERING, etc
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 23rd July 2009, 09:40 AM
  3. WIP Cyclone
    By Al B in forum METALWORK FORUM
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: 4th August 2008, 11:52 PM
  4. Best options
    By David K in forum WOODCARVING AND SCULPTURE
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 6th July 2008, 12:46 AM
  5. ML-392 Options
    By grainstruck in forum HAND TOOLS - POWERED
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 16th June 2005, 11:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •