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  1. #1
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    Default Cyclone for shop vac issue

    Hi all

    I recently bought a cheap Chinese knock-off of the mini dust deputy cyclone. My aim is to save cleaning the vac's filter and emptying the vac's bin. It's not used for DE. That's for later when I start buying some serious machinery - and some serious DE/DC.

    Anyway, I temporarily hooked up the shop vac and cyclone and used an old 20L bucket, much like the ones that contain plaster etc. Seems to be what most are using on the Intertubes.

    Well, it worked a treat! Vac filter and bin were both clean, and looked to be that all the material had been trapped in the bottom of the bucket.

    However my bucket nearly imploded! It was sucked in so much I thought it would crack/split. It didn't and still worked.

    My issue is how to stop the bucket imploding? Do I just reinforce it somehow, or get a more sturdy bucket. OR, which I the main reason I'm posting, have I don'e something wrong? If I need a stronger bucket, any suggestions? They all seem to be the same thickness etc.

    Regards Adam

    Edited: I have a 1200w Gerni unit.
    Last edited by Stratman; 14th January 2020 at 11:44 AM. Reason: To mention brand model of shop vac

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  3. #2
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    melb
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    Default

    I had same issue until I used a metal paint tin with snap lock ring.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

  4. #3
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    Default

    Thanks qwerty.
    Ah ha... Must be the bucket. I'll go for the metal paint tin.
    Regards Adam

  5. #4
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    Default

    I just slipped mine inside another bucket, strengthens the side walls.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Great idea, thanks Potts. I'll try that first as I have a few buckets.
    Regards Adam

  7. #6
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    Default

    15 or 20 litre metal buckets, with the separate locking ring, are the way to go with these small cyclones. Much more convenient to empty and much stronger.

  8. #7
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    melb
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    Im curious how putting it in another bucket makes it stronger? Since the suction makes it collapse inwards how does the bucket on the outside assist?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    Im curious how putting it in another bucket makes it stronger? Since the suction makes it collapse inwards how does the bucket on the outside assist?
    Me too. I’ve seen comments that it works, but I’d like to know the science behind it.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple8 View Post
    Me too. I’ve seen comments that it works, but I’d like to know the science behind it.
    For a bucket to collapse in the side wall there is a requirement that part of the wall, just beyond the collapse, has to bulge out as it collapses. The second bucket stops this outward bulge and so strenthens the first bucket.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohdan View Post
    For a bucket to collapse in the side wall there is a requirement that part of the wall, just beyond the collapse, has to bulge out as it collapses. The second bucket stops this outward bulge and so strenthens the first bucket.
    Possibly, my sleepless thoughts were that when the buckets are put the together most of the air is expelled and the two buckets are held together by “stuction”. When the wall of the inner bucket starts to deform there is no air (pressure) to fill the void to assist in the collapse and the suction or vacuum between the two walls is applied to the outer bucket wall and forming a double walled bucket increasing the resistance to collapse.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by apple8 View Post
    Possibly, my sleepless thoughts were that when the buckets are put the together most of the air is expelled and the two buckets are held together by “stuction”. When the wall of the inner bucket starts to deform there is no air (pressure) to fill the void to assist in the collapse and the suction or vacuum between the two walls is applied to the outer bucket wall and forming a double walled bucket increasing the resistance to collapse.
    That was what I was thinking also. I wasn't home last night but I will see for myself tonight. (I'll take some photos)

    Regards Adam

  13. #12
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    Bohdan has it right. The "stuction" theory wouldn't hold for long as air seeped past the bucket just as it does when you pull apart stacked buckets. The second bucket has the same 2 or 3 ribs under the bail attach points that will prevent the upper bucket from deforming. You can do the same with a few hoops of plywood pressed down the outside of the bucket. No "stuction" then and no collapse either.

    Pete

  14. #13
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    Rather than looking at the bucket look at the size of suction line compared to the size of the vacs suction port. If it is choked down a lot at the power tool end then it is being starved of air. Sure you can beef up the bin so as it will resist being sucked flat but you are putting extra load on the vac motor.
    There are also relief valves that can be made or bought to fit to your bucket.
    Regards
    John

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by orraloon View Post
    Rather than looking at the bucket look at the size of suction line compared to the size of the vacs suction port. If it is choked down a lot at the power tool end then it is being starved of air. Sure you can beef up the bin so as it will resist being sucked flat but you are putting extra load on the vac motor.
    The more that you starve a vac or dust extractor the less air you move and that requires less power and therefore less load on the motor.

    But I agree that there should not be enough pressure in the cyclone to collapse the bucket unless you have a blockage in the line or the suction hose is too small.

    The only time that I have collapsed a bucket was when large chips blocked the air intake and now I use the double bucket to prevent that in future.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by orraloon View Post
    Rather than looking at the bucket look at the size of suction line compared to the size of the vacs suction port. If it is choked down a lot at the power tool end then it is being starved of air. Sure you can beef up the bin so as it will resist being sucked flat but you are putting extra load on the vac motor.
    There are also relief valves that can be made or bought to fit to your bucket.
    Regards
    John
    Thanks John

    I guess the port on the vac is around 2 1/4" diameter (think it's 58mm) and the vacuum hose that came with it is 38mm. The other hose I'm using is the same size as the vac's hose with nothing connected to the power tool end (I'm just using it for vacuuming the floor).

    I'll test with two buckets tonight. And try it out with no vacuum head attached to the hose.

    Regards Adam

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