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  1. #1
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    Question Yet another "Is DC right for me" thread

    Sorry, but I think I've read every DC thread on here and I just am no closer to making a decision so please bear with me.

    Large power tools:

    Bosch contractor saw with shop-vac port
    Triton router with shop-vac port (currently no table, just sold the RTA300 about to buy Baladonia cast iron table)
    DeWalt thicknesser with 4" port, fan-assisted chip ejection
    Ozito mitre saw, shop-vac port

    I have a hand-held belt sander that I don't use much, and a ROS I use more.

    I have a 1/3 HP dust extraction box mounted to the ceiling.

    I'm not happy with the shop-vac extraction on any of the tools - it has just too narrow a focus the dust has to be generated at the nozzle otherwise it gets left on the table/tool. Router table extraction was probably the most annoying because chips would be left on the table and derail the cut. The DeWalt is just messy. Table and mitre saws I'm not too worried about I give them a good clean-out with the air compressor after use.

    I'm a hobbyist I spend a couple of hours a week in the garage.

    I don't mind forking out $600 which is what I'm looking at for the 2HP industrial Sherwood but only if it's suitable for my situation and tools.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanaelBC View Post
    Sorry, but I think I've read every DC thread on here and I just am no closer to making a decision so please bear with me.

    Large power tools:

    Bosch contractor saw with shop-vac port
    Triton router with shop-vac port (currently no table, just sold the RTA300 about to buy Baladonia cast iron table)
    DeWalt thicknesser with 4" port, fan-assisted chip ejection
    Ozito mitre saw, shop-vac port

    I have a hand-held belt sander that I don't use much, and a ROS I use more.

    I have a 1/3 HP dust extraction box mounted to the ceiling.

    I'm not happy with the shop-vac extraction on any of the tools - it has just too narrow a focus the dust has to be generated at the nozzle otherwise it gets left on the table/tool. Router table extraction was probably the most annoying because chips would be left on the table and derail the cut. The DeWalt is just messy. Table and mitre saws I'm not too worried about I give them a good clean-out with the air compressor after use.

    I'm a hobbyist I spend a couple of hours a week in the garage.
    Can you put the DC outside?

    Are you prepared/able to modify the ports on the machines?

    What sort of ventilation natural and forced do you have.

    How big is the shed.

    BTW cleaning sawdust with a compressor is one of the worst things you can do.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Hi BobL,

    Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be keen for you viw on the Sherwood 2HP Dust Extractor the OP lists above as I was previously looking at the same model. Whilst I understand the quoted 1750 cfm is fanciful, through it's design (similar to the Delta model) it does seem to offer all the benefits of the "Generic 2HP DC" modifications, plus it has a ready made 6" inlet.

    Have you looked at it before? I have some pics of the unit I took at Timbecon if it helps.

    cheers

    Acolyte

  5. #4
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    Feb 2014
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    Thanks Bob,

    The garage is a two-car, 6.6 x 6.6 metres.

    Putting DC outside isn't out of the question but would need to offer significant benefit to justify the effort of putting a hole in a brick wall and erecting a weatherproof housing around it.

    Ventilation, I have a high-volume industrial extraction fan but it's loud, I usually only use it when welding in the garage (i.e. for fumes). Otherwise no ventilation as such.

    Modify ports on the machines? Probably only the contractor's saw is feasible for mods - but as long as I can ensure it can be easily packed up and stowed as still need to park both cars in there.

    PS: Cars haven't been put in garage for quite a while - trying to clear up the garage and make everything roll-away-able (so why am I buying more stuff?)

    Cheers,

  6. #5
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    Let me start by saying I know that 95% of woodies want to play with wood and not play around incessantly with setting up and modifying dust extraction systems.
    i.e. They want a plug and play solution.
    Unfortunately there are no P&P solutions that really handles wood dust so substantial mods need to be made especially to machinery to achieve a safe working level of dust in a shed.

    Dust exposure depends on dust concentration and exposure time and I notice you only work a "couple of hours a week" in the shed.

    If a couple is "two" then even I would wear a good quality dust mask for that length of time.
    An unmodded 2HP DC will pick up the chips, and vent your shed with the high-volume industrial extraction fan.
    These actions with keep your risk factor low, although the chance of developing an allergy is not simply dependent on exposure and one cannot say when this will trigger.

    If a couple is "4" then wearing a mask would irk me considerable but would still be OK in terms of risk.
    If a couple is "10" then I would not recommend this approach.

    This is a decision you need to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by NathanaelBC View Post
    The garage is a two-car, 6.6 x 6.6 metres.
    This is generally too big for a 2HP DC. A 2HP should have it's ducting runs (including verticals) kept to under 3m which means restricting the machinery to less than one half of your shed.

    Putting DC outside isn't out of the question but would need to offer significant benefit to justify the effort of putting a hole in a brick wall and erecting a weatherproof housing around it.,
    This by far and away the BEST thing any woody can do for wood dust minimisation, irrespective of the size of the shed and the DC.
    I would rate this as the NUMBER ONE priority for any wood worker - if you do nothing else except this then you have done the right thing.
    Same thing for shop vacs.

    Putting the DC outside TRUMPS the fact that longer ducting runs are needed to get from the outside to the inside and around the shed.
    EG in a 6m x 6m shed you could put the DC in the middle and hook up machines almost anywhere in the shed a retain high air flow rates
    BUT
    All the leaking dust from the DC and inefficieny of the filter stays inside the shed and builds up.
    With the DC outside the shed you may have lower flows but at least the fine dust is (slowly) being removed.

    Ventilation, I have a high-volume industrial extraction fan but it's loud, I usually only use it when welding in the garage (i.e. for fumes).
    Keep it and use it often

    Modify ports on the machines? Probably only the contractor's saw is feasible for mods - but as long as I can ensure it can be easily packed up and stowed as still need to park both cars in there.
    Where there's a will there's a way of modifying anything and if that doesn't work then a semi enclosed downdraft dust extraction table/cabinet is a possibility.

    Bosch contractor saw with shop-vac port.
    Enclose lower half in vented cabinet

    Triton router with shop-vac port (currently no table, just sold the RTA300 about to buy Baladonia cast iron table)
    Extract from table and fence - far from perfect but as best as you can get

    DeWalt thicknesser with 4" port, fan-assisted chip ejection
    Use as is for the moment

    Ozito mitre saw, shop-vac port
    Set up semi enclosed rear dust capture - plenty of examples around - Chris Parks has a good one.
    Really needs 6" ducting to work properly

  7. #6
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    Thanks for your input Bob. For my shed I plan on an externally located D.C., and short 6" duct runs. Just interested in your take on the Timbecon 2HP dusty though...

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acolyte View Post
    Thanks for your input Bob. For my shed I plan on an externally located D.C., and short 6" duct runs. Just interested in your take on the Timbecon 2HP dusty though...
    It looks like it should be better than a generic 2HP but by how much I can't say. The only downside is I think it is a straight vaned impeller so it will be noisy so getting it outside will be well worth it.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    It looks like it should be better than a generic 2HP but by how much I can't say. The only downside is I think it is a straight vaned impeller so it will be noisy so getting it outside will be well worth it.

    Thanks - not sure what you mean by a straight vaned impeller, it looks to be about 300mm diameter and made of plastic, have attached some photos. IMG_9110.JPGIMG_9111.JPGIMG_9112.jpgIMG_9113.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #9
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    Thanks for posting the pictures,

    Quote Originally Posted by Acolyte View Post
    Thanks - not sure what you mean by a straight vaned impeller, it looks to be about 300mm diameter and made of plastic, have attached some photos.
    Hmmmmm . . . plastic does not excite me. Even a small piece of wood may break (even a small part of) one of the vanes and then the thing becomes unbalanced and will vibrate like crazy and the impeller will need to be replaced.
    I'd be interested to know if anyone has had this problem.

    Yes it does have a straight vaned impeller this will help it move air but also make more noise.
    TCimpeller.jpg

    They might not look like they would do much but those cross bars above the impeller in the photo above will knock the stuffing out of the air flow . Once you are out of warranty I would cut those out.

    Not all that happy about the finish on the rectangular ducting entrance into the filter bag housing.
    The ragged edges will prevent the sawdust from spinning fast enough to efficiently separate the chips from the fine dust.
    While this separation is only nominal in these DCs , every little bit helps.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acolyte View Post
    Thanks - not sure what you mean by a straight vaned impeller, it looks to be about 300mm diameter and made of plastic, have attached some photos.
    Argh. What a galactic disappointment.

    Straight vanes are the worst.... And that presentation and welding at the collector... This is supposed to be a $599 unit.

    Nothing in this world is good quality any more. How hard is it to jig something like this up at weld up time? Trivial. Absolutely trivial.

  12. #11
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    Somebody also made a very poor decision about the colour of the latest range of Timbecon machinery, it's what I call a Poo-brown.
    It fails on a number of fronts - the main one being safety as it blends in too easily with woody stuff and dust in a shed.
    Machinery is supposed to stand out and say "watch out" , it's about the only thing it can do is have bright or different colour to what's in a shed.
    The other thing is that to me it it looks like it's not finished - like an undercoat or primer of some kind.
    Marketing should get a fail for that call.

  13. #12
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    A plastic impeller!! Gods. That will last about 3 weeks in my studio. Stuff gets ingested all the time off the lathe.... especially ends of spindles I've just parted off.

    NathanaelBC! Sorry to hijack your thread dude!

  14. #13
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    No worries woodPixel you made good with that msg, just replying now.

    Thanks BobL especially for your in-depth comments. I'm sure you're horrified to know that I'm more worried about keeping my router table clear of debris than I am about keeping my lungs free of dust, but yes at just a few hours per workshop session the OH&S isn't too significant a risk; I wear a mask and then run the ceiling filtration unit running so I really am on the fence about DC because it's not essential, more a nice to have.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanaelBC View Post
    No worries woodPixel you made good with that msg, just replying now.

    Thanks BobL especially for your in-depth comments. I'm sure you're horrified to know that I'm more worried about keeping my router table clear of debris than I am about keeping my lungs free of dust,
    Not horrified at all. It's pretty normal.

  16. #15
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    Just a quick follow up - I had the chance to look at the subject DC again today and can confirm the impeller is made of metal rather than plastic. Sorry for any false impressions.

    Although the colour scheme is confirmed as poo-brown...

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