Thread: DCC-310 - Dust Collector & Cyclone Separator - Package deal

The 1200 CFM from a generic 2HP is for the impeller only (no ducting or filter attached) and is done with a standardised test that is plain wrong.

Almost irrespective of the DC used you cannot get more than ~425 CFM though a 4" smooth walled PVC duct.

If you use flex, deduct 50% for every 4 m of the soft floppy stuff, and for every 6m of the stiffer/more rigid stuff.

Generic cyclones deduct 25% on top of that.

If the 2HP DC is modified (input and output) to 6" ducting you get about 865 CFM with a needle felt and about 10% more with a pleated filter.

Max airflow is with no cyclone, minimal flex, using PFs, - just gotta empty the bags more often.

Generic 3HP with the same size impeller as the 2HP DC (a common problem) won't generate much more flow except they have 2 filters and bags so generate about 1000 CFM provided they can accept 6" ducting.

Originally Posted by BobL

Generic cyclones deduct 25% on top of that.

Generic 3HP with the same size impeller as the 2HP DC (a common problem) won't generate much more flow except they have 2 filters and bags so generate about 1000 CFM provided they can accept 6" ducting.

Thanks Bob
Wow - 25% flow reduction with cyclone alone
I was leaning toward their single phase 3HP with pleated filters but from what you are saying the DC-7 doesnt even provide half the 2300cfm they state even after modifying to 6" duct - sheeesh

I'm sold on not needing a cyclone as I dont mind emptying more often.
Looks like I will forget about the H&F sale

Open to any other sales recommendations around the $1500-$2000 mark

To make proper recommendations we need to start at the beginning,

How big is your shed?
What machines do you have
Whats your usage pattern - average numbers of hours per month of dust making?

Thanks for your time and experience Bob
Sorry, I should have mentioned this in the beginning
I would think the shed is too big to get the recommended 20 times volume/hr from extraction in my budget.

Its 13m x 26m x 6.5m high at the apex (1.5m rise from the side wall)
2 sliding doors 6.5 x 4m. No partitions in the shed
There is a large open bay / outdoor section covered by the roof at the front

I cant modify the shed too much - it isnt mine to do so. I can cut an exhaust vent for the DC in a wall but thats about it

Wood working equipment area only takes up about 10-15% of the floor space along an end wall that cops the afternoon sun. I have insulated half the end wall but it gets very hot. Over 50 degrees radiates off the un-insulated section of wall. The rest of this wall will be insulated and clad as time allows.

I have a couple wood lathes, 480 bandsaw, a 330mm thickneser hooked up to a vaccum, and a belt and disc linisher that I keep under the open bay section as its just too dusty to use inside.

I would like a drum sander and jointer sometime later down the track once DC is sorted

In the dry season I can keep the sliding doors open and turn on an industrial fan on the end wall that pushes most airbourne bandsaw dust out the sliding door. I also use a large mobile evaporative air conditioner that works a treat to spot cool when the humidity is less than 60%. Its also a bit of a collector for some fine dust

I am using a good respirator when i use the equipment as the present dc does bugger all for the airbourne dust
I would average about 2 hours per day of dust making up to 6 hours per day in the weekends

Yep - you'll need 6" ducting at least a 15" impeller if you are going to handle fine dust in that shed. The you could add a cyclone and losing 25% won't make much of a difference.

You'd need something like a large Evap AC system to handle fine dust by ventilation - this would also solve your heat problem but just running the AC fan would be extra cool in winder

Okay. Happy to mod to 6" however, is it possible to find a DC unit with 15" impeller for round $2K mark?
If not I may have to reconsider the budget and look out for other DC sales.

The Evap aircon unit can move a lot of air but its not ideal as an air cleaner.

All that dust cant be great for the water pump and will probably need weekly flushes to stop things clogging up
Blue diamond dont recommend using when over 50% humidity either - so thats the next 4 months out
She sounds pretty furious at full fan speed but only draws 3.2A if that read out is to be believed
26 degrees actually feels cool in the shed and a fair representation of the cold water temp here.

Evap.jpg20211120_143010.jpg20211120_142839.jpg

Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork

Okay. Happy to mod to 6" however, is it possible to find a DC unit with 15" impeller for round $2K mark?

Nope, sorry, these are normally found on 4 or 5 HP DCs like a CLearVue (~$3.5k)

If not I may have to reconsider the budget and look out for other DC sales.
The Evap aircon unit can move a lot of air but its not ideal as an air cleaner.

I don't mean a recirculating one, but a roof mounted one that only takes fresh air from the outside and dumps it into the ceiling of the shed.
You only run it with water if and when you need the coolth and even then I would be wary as they can rust and exposed machinery.
Down side is when its cold outside but our local mens shed runs theirs all day since it's never that cold here in Perth.

I've been to mens sheds that have them and a local member has one in his shed and have checked the dust clearing capacity of these with particle counters. They're very effective at flushing stale air and fine out of a shed, way quicker than a big dust extractor.
The bigger dust extractors using 6" ducting will of course extract very efficiently at specific sources, but the big Evap AC unit takes care of dust from every source at the same time.

Thanks Bob. I had a look at the clearview site. Looks like there are a couple additional costs to set the 1800 up. Possibly closer to $4.5K once VFD, ducting, etc included. And then theres freight to the other side of the country.

Oh, yes. A roof top mounted Evap AC would be great. Unfortunately not an option for the owner of the shed even if not plumbed for water. I dont think anyone has installed a roof mounted AC in town since the 80's. Possibly due to very hard ground water and extreme heat and the havoc that would play with the system.

Interesting about the evap AC increasing risk of rusting the machinery. The humidity up here wont drop much below 70% from next month til around April

Looks like I will either have to break an investment to get a 15" system or just get a generic 3HP to catch large particulate, and keep wearing a respirator while making dust. I havnt seen any good 2nd hand DC systems for sale in the top end but I'll keep an eye out for one while wiping dust out of the other

Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork

Thanks Bob. I had a look at the clearview site. Looks like there are a couple additional costs to set the 1800 up. Possibly closer to $4.5K once VFD, ducting, etc included. And then theres freight to the other side of the country.

Yeah that's right. With your size shed unless you group machinery into one are, ducting alone will be quite expensive.

Oh, yes. A roof top mounted Evap AC would be great. Unfortunately not an option for the owner of the shed even if not plumbed for water. I dont think anyone has installed a roof mounted AC in town since the 80's. Possibly due to very hard ground water and extreme heat and the havoc that would play with the system.
Interesting about the evap AC increasing risk of rusting the machinery. The humidity up here wont drop much below 70% from next month til around April

That would really hit me real hard.
In Perth, while the humidity does vary quite a bit during each day the average arvo (3pm) Humidity doesn't go above 60 for the whole year. It's <50 for 6 months, and <40 for 2 months. Despite this I have a refrigerated AC in the shed but I can't run the DC for too long otherwise I empty the shed of cool air.. In Feb / March the humidity can get over 70 for a few days and on those days I crank up the AC and do jobs that don't need a DC.

Looks like I will either have to break an investment to get a 15" system or just get a generic 3HP to catch large particulate, and keep wearing a respirator while making dust. I havnt seen any good 2nd hand DC systems for sale in the top end but I'll keep an eye out for one while wiping dust out of the other

A very large workshop has multiple pros and cons.
When it is as large as yours, even with doors open and when there is little air movement outside the shed the fine dust has a very large volume to expand into so it becomes harder to raise the fine dust levels inside a shed. Contrast that with say a 6 x 3 x 2.4 m shed with a retired wood turner making dust for 8 hours a day - that will fill fast with dust and become more and more concentrated during the day. I've see a few of these in deceased estate clean ups when I was with the mens shed.

To further illustrate this, a friend of mine has an single operator industrial wood workshop that is about half your shed size that has 2 large roller doors (one at each end of the shed which he keeps open at all times) and all he has is a 3HP Felder which uses 6" ducting next to the back door. We tested his workshop for dust and found the PM2.5 never went above about 30µg/m^3, even when there were no breezes blowing. Now he does buy most of his timber already close to size but he still does cut and thickness some timber. This shows the advantage of a large shed volume for the dust to expand into and having full-size roller doors at each end to allow the dust to escape.

In contrast, a wood working workshop I visited back in 2013 which was almost the same size as yours but only had one large roller door at the front. The morning I arrived there were 5 operators using 3 DCs (2x3HP and a 2HP) plus shop vacs, all venting inside the shed. They also had a large capacity spray booth which could vent air out of the shed but were not using it that morning. PM2.5 levels around the operators reached >150 µg/m^3 and after a couple of hours of operation the average shed levels were consistently above 50µg/m^3 and did not drop off all that fast when 3 of the operators left after lunch. Dust levels dropped much quicker when they turned on the spray booth fan

Thanks Bob,

It will take a few more nights to sleep on it before I decide what to do.

Yep the heat is okay usually but its the humidity thats the killer. It becomes an endurance event over the wet season - can only wait for good storms to bring some intermittent relief.
The shed may end up storing a 6.1KW mobile reverse cycle air-conditioner that I will be able to use to spot cool.
With shed doors closed it should work okay in a corner or at my back while working at the lathe

I hear what you are saying about a large shed. Great examples you gave there.
I think I just need to get a DC that will effectively remove the bulk of the dust. If I sort out 6" ducts and bell mouth inlets I think I will be mostly there. I did see an old 5HP 3phase hafco with little use on gum tree but is pick up only... only 4000 odd km away