Thread: DRAFT Ducting Recommendations

Originally Posted by LostBoys

Thanks very much for an informative thread.

I'm having a surprisingly difficult time trying to find a supplier for 150mm PVC stormwater and fittings (45/y tee and 45 bends) in Sydney; any equivalent to pipeonline on the east coast? I haven't tried a shipping estimate for pipeonline, on principle it does seem nuts to think about shipping a commodity like PVC pipe across the country...

IN some states they have agents they work though so it may still be worthwhile contacting them because places like bunnings are very expensive.

Forget Reece they are only interested in supplying the plumbing trade and over the counter retail prices are double everywhere else. Have a look at this link nowra plumbing supplies - Google Search and choose from it ignoring Reece. There used to be an irrigation supplier in Bombaderry who was good but I haven't been there for years.

Plumbers Co-op cheapest I found in Newcastle.

Big difference in prices between different places.

For 150mm Plumbers Co-op was $10-14 for bends and wyes whereas other places were up to $30 each.
6m of 150mm about $90.

A lot of this stuff is ridiculous. Massive price increase from 100mm to 150mm.

last weekend I was buying a couple of 100mm 45*elbows from bunnies because I refuse to support reece plumbing, The Bunnies floor supervisor mentioned I was a little late for water, mentioned it was for my dust extraction, that turned into a 40 minute conversation/discussion with about 6 staff, end of the outcome was 4 doubters of this working plus the supervisor spent 30 minutes in my shed this arvo.

ALL now convinced, I will be watching out for new forum members.

Originally Posted by Tonyz

last weekend I was buying a couple of 100mm 45*elbows from bunnies because I refuse to support reece plumbing, The Bunnies floor supervisor mentioned I was a little late for water, mentioned it was for my dust extraction, that turned into a 40 minute conversation/discussion with about 6 staff, end of the outcome was 4 doubters of this working plus the supervisor spent 30 minutes in my shed this arvo.

ALL now convinced, I will be watching out for new forum members.

Excellent! and Well done

Did the hoary chestnut about PVC will causing an explosion come up.
If so, print out the FAQ section on that topic and show it to them.

I had a similar discussions with Pipeonline starting back in the lates 1990s(?) about using stormwater pipe to move air in ultra clean air labs. Pipeonline were very skeptical but after I showed them a few examples /photos they got really interested. We also bought heaps of black HDPE plumbing fittings from them to build a circular reticulated deionized water line running from a central plant to 6 labs. To clean the line we repeatedly filled the lines and pumped dilute acid thru the lines for about 2 months - then we repeated flushed the lines with water until we could detect no acid in the water.

I didnt let them have a chance, I knew there was one chance to lay this out, how it all worked, why we care about dust and our health, I just raved on n on.
Today they dis mention about doing a safety audit on the cut section.

Originally Posted by Tonyz

I didnt let them have a chance, I knew there was one chance to lay this out, how it all worked, why we care about dust and our health, I just raved on n on.

Today they dis mention about doing a safety audit on the cut section.

I hope they find someone that knows what they are doing to do the audit. My guess is they will call in someone who will apply the 1967 OHS wood dust in ai standards (based on British beech and oak) of 5000 and 1000 µg/m^3 and they'll find they're OK. Instead they should be applying public health air quality standards that are up to 200 x lower.

Bob I could be wrong but they might be looking into the safety of having a lot of offcuts pipes or old stock laying around. Discarding them in the interest of cleanliness.

Pete

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Bob I could be wrong but they might be looking into the safety of having a lot of offcuts pipes or old stock laying around. Discarding them in the interest of cleanliness.

Pete

Tony did say;

Today they dis mention about doing a safety audit on the cut section.

Their "cut section" is where they cut up timber, usually its a track saw of some kind.

from their comments I would suspect an 'staff audit' may be done and presented to management in the interest of staff safety. In our local shop they have a large 3HP carbatec dust extractor hooked to their panel saw, but when I persuaded them to cut up some rough sheets and other staff were shown the amount of fine dust that escaped for them to breathe, the comments were interesting.

Originally Posted by Tonyz

from their comments I would suspect an 'staff audit' may be done and presented to management in the interest of staff safety. In our local shop they have a large 3HP carbatec dust extractor hooked to their panel saw, but when I persuaded them to cut up some rough sheets and other staff were shown the amount of fine dust that escaped for them to breathe, the comments were interesting.

I am aware of moves to improve that problem.

Originally Posted by BobL

Tony did say;
Their "cut section" is where they cut up timber, usually its a track saw of some kind.

My mistake. In some places where I worked a "Safety Check" was done to "clean up" an area or section with the discarded stuff being scooped up by someone with an interest in it. In this case discarded pipe going to Tony for his system. Something like a "Safety Meeting" being an excuse to go to the pub.

Pete

This has come up multiple times so I though I would add a summary here.
[This is a work in progress so maybe check back a few times as I will add more pics and details]

The general rule is no one makes adapters that suit every power tool (especially yours!) so it's likely you will need to be creative.

Sources of ready made adapters.
Although there are sometimes adapaters available in general hardware stores, 9/10 times they won't fit or suit. Don't rely on hardware store people to know about this problem or be able to help. However ,there are often lots of other things available in hardware stores that can be adapted to suit. Read on,

Stores like Timbercon and Carbatech also sell adapters, and online places like Amazon have a wide selection (do a search for power tool dust port adapter).

Useful Features
However, again unless you bring your power tool along and check for sizing (don't rely on measurements, even a 1/4 mm difference may work but it may not).

The main problem with most store bought adapters is they use steps like this.
Screen Shot 2022-06-14 at 5.49.40 pm.png

Steps can seriously reduce air flow - look for adapaters with a smooth transition like this.
Adapter2.JPG
This is 3D printed 30-40 mm OD adapter with a 30 mm long transition.
The longer the transition the better but of course you cannot go overboard because then they will become too long and in the way.
A minimum transition length should be approx equal to the largest diameter being use but this is not always possible, any transition is better than a step.

The next thing is they need to fit snugly. Yes, this can be done with gaffer tape but as well as being ugly it's not very practical for quick connect and disconnect.
Idea a fitting should have a very slight taper fit so at least the male or female part has to be tapered. Depending on teh material ~1/4 mm over 25mm is sufficient and this can be sanded into some materials but it's a lot of work.

Using/making flexible adapaters
This is the method I use on most of my power tools *thanks to Derek Cohen for his picture.

The black adapter is a plumbing rubber flexible coupling/adapter that allows for the a range of sizes a couple of mm either way.
Some of these adapters will fit vac hoses by simply pushing them on (this is how Derek uses his and being rubber they stretch to fit) while others may need to be held in place using a hose clamp.
They also cope really well with odd shaped ports like the oval shape on this sander.


These adapters are available from hardware stores (see Flexible Couplings - Bunnings Australia) and typically suit larger dust ports (32 up to 100mm). I have squeezed a 32 mm adapter down to fit a 28 mm port, and also packed out the outsides of ports by using short sections of PVC heat molded to fit od shape ports using a hot air gun.

I've adapted my power tools to fit a standard internally threaded 28mm BSP plumbing fitting (NB this is not 28 MM OD or ID, its 28 mm BSOP which is its own beast) that will fit neatly inside a 50 mm flexy hose that connects to my DC.
50mmflkex.jpg

So my Festo sander connect logs like this.
Festo.jpg

My Makita belt sander port is tiny so all I do is this,
Yes there is a gap between the swivel port an the adapter but the DC takes more air than the sander fan outputs so its not a problem.
Makitadpt.jpg

If you have (access to) a lathe then you can turn your own adapter to exact size including the taper from PVC fittings found in the plumbing section.

If you have (access to) a 3D printer you can make your own to exact size including the taper

There are hundreds of plans for adapters on the Thingiverse website Search Thingiverse - Thingiverse

Including this full customisable plan. Customizable Shopvac Hose Adapter by Harpalyke - Thingiverse
3Dadapters.jpg

More to come.

Thanks to Bob for all this information we are in the quote stage and then the grant when one becomes available.
The info will help with asking/ensuring quote is what we need.
Am thinking at this stage we should actually do some air quality testing is there a machine that anyone recommends.Please.