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Thread: Ducting update.

  1. #1
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    Default Ducting update.

    After successfully tending to the dust issues of my 10" combo planar thicknesser I though it was time to address the belt and disc sander.

    I got the sander after I set up my ducting system and up until now have been "borrowing" 2 of the 3, 100 mm flexies off the nearby bandsaw to extract the dust but this places flexies across a walk way and there's always the temptation not to use any dust collection at all for small jobs and the 2 flexies are not really extracting the dust properly.

    So off to Pipeco for more PVC fittings, 2 Y's, and 45's and couplers.

    As usual the shed domino kicks in and one project leads to 10 other things.

    The plan was to break into the 150 mm line between the Lathe and the BS go up and across the ceiling and come down in the middle of the shed where the sander is located.

    Problem one, existing fluoro light in way of proposed ducting path.
    Go to move light - only suitable nearby place to put light has shed ceiling diagonal support in the way.
    Move shed diagonal - light still doesn't fit so make new brackets for light and that's where I stopped.

    I'll post some pics when I have something worth showing.

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  3. #2
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    yeah hard to take a photo of frustration
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  4. #3
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    Spent half of yesterday and most of today on this short extension to the DC system.
    The usual headaches of trying to shoehorn to many things into a small shed.

    After making new light bracket and fixing the new light location I figured I had enough height to move the ducting closer to where I wanted it, so moving the light and diagonal was not needed after all!

    Previously my ducting stopped at the BS where I had a 150 to 3 x 100 PVC Y servicing the BS with flexies.
    The PVC junction was replaced by a galv junction as the galv is more compact and space is at a real premium behind the BS.
    After that I added a 150 Y to branch out to go upwards and then 2m across the ceiling
    extension.jpg

    Here's a shot of the galv junction.
    Note how there is plenty of room to fit push-pull Blast Gates on Y's if slightly longer BG-Y connection ducts are used.
    3x100.jpg

    In the next photos you can see where the new Blast gate (BG) is going and then 2m of duct will go across the ceiling and down to a 3 x 100 mm christmas tree to serve the belt sander and bench in the middle of the shed

    Up until dragging the flexies off the BS and attaching them to the sander on the central bench thus blocking up the walk way.

    DP is eventually going to be a take off to go to the Drill press and a Grinder station.
    extension2.jpg

    Anyway got the main junctions sorted and next had to make another blast gate.
    The problem with this one is it was going to be too high to use a standard push - pull type gate like my other BGs so this one was going to have to be Rocker style gates that could be activated by a pair of cords.

    A few years ago I was somewhat disparaging about these gates when Chris Parks showed a picture of one on the forum and now I have to eat my words! GULP!

    Instead of trying to make the gate straight up (I'm going to use PVC Sheet) and risking the chance of stuffing it up, I decided to make a prototype out of 6mm MDF that can be taken apart. The main reason for doing this is that this style of gate will most likely be the type we will need to use at the mens shed as the ducting will be quite high above the floor. Being able to take it apart means the pattern can be traced around and its operation can be closely examined by the punters at the mens shed.

    Here are the parts.
    This one uses 150 mm ducting connection pieces (i.e. male-male model) the alternatives are to use a coupler cut in half (i.e. female - female version) or hermaphrodite type (make/female)
    parts.jpg

    Here it is partially assembled.
    Getting the 3 holes concentric requires a bit of stuffing around.
    I basically did not cut the holes until I had the whole thing assembled. Then with the pieces in place I drilled a hole through the centre of all three pieces which gave me a reference point for all three pieces.
    Then I marked out and drilled a hole on each of the rims of the large holes and used a router with an overhead rotating pin jig - see above photo to cut the hole.
    NB the rocker has a smaller hole (ID of ducting) than the front/back pieces which have the hole as the OD of the ducting

    partassem.jpg

    And here it is in open mode
    The little handles on the side are fixed so as the major openings align accurately
    Open.jpg

    A pair of cords can be attached to the handles as shown below to open close the gates.
    A single pneumatic actuator could also be used.
    Closed.jpg

    The female version will need to be slightly larger to accomodate the large diameter PVC coupling size.

    The curves are a but tricky but once the pattern is established they are very easy to make and could be made out of ply, aluminium, galv shred, or plastic.

  5. #4
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    interesting blast gate
    how do you fix the duct to the gate?
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    interesting blast gate
    how do you fix the duct to the gate?
    Do you mean the pieces of ducting I used to make the gate, or the gate itself to the other ducting?

    For the former the PVC pieces of ducting are glued to their respective front and back pieces of the gate.

    To attach the gate to other ducting a couple of short self tappers will hold it in place and then I usually add gaffer tape to seal the joint.
    The gates couple of course be PVC glued into place but I would not advise this.

    screws.jpg

  7. #6
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    Managed to get all bar the last bit done of this today.

    First the Rocker style gate in PVC.
    Works real good. Tight - but not too tight.
    PVCrocker.jpg

    Ducting across the walkway and onto the Xmas tree breakout for the Sander
    completeducting.jpg


    Below you can see the collection points on the sander.
    C collects from the big Disc
    B is a temporary hood that collects air/duct from above the motor.
    The motor cooling fan from this sander drags some dust off the belt so some dust gathering solution after the motor fan use needed.
    I will make a more bell mouthish hood when I get a chance.
    This hood and the 5" ducting is the exit port from the impeller of the generic 2HP DC I modified.
    The 5" ducting slips over the 100 mm screw connection on the Xmas tree.

    "A" on the sander needs some flex to connect to the other A on the Xmas tree and this will take dust direct off the belt.
    I tried it out with flex from the BS, but I'm not happy with dust collection from "A" and I will eventually make a bigger collection hood for the end of the belt
    It's well hidden but there is a 1200 CFM squirrel cage fan directly above the sander to help vent escaped dust outside the shed.
    SAnder.jpg

  8. #7
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    That rocker really looks the business.

    I notice a lot of junctions don't have any tape, have you glued them?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnewby View Post
    That rocker really looks the business.
    Yep - that design is going to be come my standard gate for that sort of situation.
    Sliding gates are still a better option in cases where they can be easily reached or when when ducting is hard up against a wall.

    I notice a lot of junctions don't have any tape, have you glued them?
    Only about half of my Ducting currently has tape.
    I've done that because I fiddle with the ducting layout quite a bit AND I like to be be able to rotate some junctions to suit what I'm doing.

    Even the section I taped up has had the tape removed several times.
    Eventually I will add tape to all of the junctions that do not need to move.

    An example of a junction that moves is a Y junction above one of my work benches that has no gates and just a screw cap on it. When its are not being used I rotate the junction so the Y is out of the way. When I want to use it I rotate the junction so that it points downwards and I remove the screw cap and add some flexy and connect to power tools etc. To facilitate the movement and seal the join I use vaseline.

  10. #9
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    Looks like it's time for a shed expansion Bob !
    Glenn Visca

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn.Visca View Post
    Looks like it's time for a shed expansion Bob !
    Yes things are pretty tight. would have to move house though as I'm on the shed size limit as far the council goes.

    It's becoming more and more of a challenge to see what I can squeeze in there.
    OTOH the size of project output tend to get smaller and smaller

  12. #11
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    Here are the plans for the rocker gates in case anyone wants to use them

    I also rescaled the plans to suit 100mm gates and laid them out on a piece of MDF to make sure they looked ok.
    I will build one in the next day or so to make doubly sure.

    To make a gate you will need to cut out 6 pieces.
    The plum coloured part is the gate itself - the bit that moves
    You will need Two of the green coloured parts which make up the back and the front of the gate
    The blue part is sandwiched between the tops of the two green pieces
    and the two yellow pieces are the stops that get attached to the left and right hand sides of the gate.

    Unless you are a super precise worker don't expect to mark and cut out and to get the major holes to line up.
    You probably have your own alignment methods - I cut the big holes out last using a router.
    I joined up all the pieces and then drilled a 1 mm pilot hole though all three pieces and marked "a" and "b" off that pilot hole, then I drilled the pilot holes out out to suit my router hole cutting jig.

    The sizes of the holes will be ducting and coupler size dependent - you may want to measure these as not all ducting is the same.



    Plan.jpg

  13. #12
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    5 years after setting up my dust extraction system I've finally started to work on dust extraction for my router table that is attached to my TS.

    The dust port on the router fence has been upgraded from a 50 to a 100 mm port and it utilises the same flexy as the TS guard - that bit is working well.

    When I installed the 150 mm ducting to the underneath of the TS I added a 150 – 100mm Y junction, with the 100 mm connection to eventually be used for under router table dust collection connection.

    So the first thing I needed was a 100 mm blast gate. Not one of those cheap and cheerful black plastic 90 mm gates but a true 100 mm gate.

    Being in gate making mode I looked to see if I had enough materials left over from making the rocker style 150 mm gate and it looked like I did.

    Just as finished cutting out the front and back I realised I had made them 15 mm too narrow - DANG!

    Went and had a cup of coffee and a think, and this is what I came up with.

    Benefits include; uses slightly less material and as there is a much shorter sideways contact it has much less friction than a regular full size gate

    100mmLRG.jpg
    100mmLRGopen.jpg

  14. #13
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    Necessity is the mother of invention !
    Glenn Visca

  15. #14
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    Sander is done for the moment.
    Sanderdone.jpg

  16. #15
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    I have some routing jobs coming up and although I have good router fence dust collection the under router table collection was rubbish.

    The router table is a wing off the side of my TS and I vent the router fence using the 4" flexy that also vents my TS blade guard.
    (There's another job to do and that is extend the 6" ducting up to immediately above the TS so I can shorten that flexy,
    TStop.jpg

    And here is the router fence collection point - this bit works very well for dust ejected above the table.
    routertop.jpg

    What I should do for the under table component is built a vented router cabinet and collect from there ,but I am reluctant to do that because I may upgrade my TS in the next year or so.

    Was thinking about this yesterday and here is a budget solution that works even better than I thought it would.

    Its a $7 plastic box and an Occky strap attached to a couple bolts under the table.
    IMG_6699.jpg

    Here you can see the dust collection connection - its a 100 mm PVC floor drain which has a rounded edge so is a sort of crude bell mouth hood.

    Routerbot.jpg

    Here you can see the Occky strap connection - a piece of bent steel strap with a couple of holes drilled in it.
    The cast iron table ribbing means there is a fair gap between the box and the underside of the table - this also allows the mains cable to exit the box.
    I'll see if any dust collects in the box and if it needs it I will add a couple of vents to the sides of the box.
    routerside.jpg

    Here you can see the floor drain inside the box, I have also round the internal edge of the short length of 100 mm ducting that connects to the drain
    BMHood.jpg

    A quick test shows that visually its a winner - I can't believe that this $10 solution works so well and "WHY I haven't done this earlier?".

    One thing I think I will add is a proper no-volt (electromagnetic) switch in series with the router and locate it at a suitable place near the edge of the underside of the table. This will be better that using the mains switch to turn the router on/off.

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