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Thread: Dust Collection Setup
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2nd November 2019, 07:51 AM #1Senior Member
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Dust Collection Setup
Hi All,
Im currently in the process of setting up my "dream shop" the space i have is 9m x 9.2m. I have a carbatec ub 3100eck which has options for 3 x 4inch round ports or if i remove the 3 way coupler a 200mm round port.
The machines i want to attach are table saw, compound mitre saw, jointer/thicknesser combo (SCM scm l'invincibile which i have to make dust shroud for), band saw, combo drum/disc sander & router table. As well as some sort of hood/shroud for my drill press and wood lathe, smaller hose for palm sander etc.
I've been mucking around with machine position but i don't have a very good understanding of dust extraction.
how long can the pipes/hose be running to the machines?
what would the best option be for duct hose/pipe size? should i try to adapt the 200mm port to make a large backbone and branch off it or use the 3 x 4 inch ports to run different directions to different groups of machine.
Thanks
MArty
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2nd November 2019, 09:59 AM #2.
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Sorry to appear negative but I'd say that your dreams are unlikely to be met with that dust collector in that size shed.
For the same $ you could have purchased a ClearVue which would have been better up to the task.
To summarise the dust collection forum:
Ensure the DC is located outside OR in an airtight cupboard that is vented outside.
This means you can remove the filter and improve the flow
Ditch the 4" ports on the DC
Make up a 8" to 6" adapter or buy one from Timbecon
Run 6" ducting to all machinery (4" ducting has ~1/3rd the air flow of 6" ducting)
Open up all the dust outlet ports on machines to utilise 6" ducting
For particulars invest some time into reading the Dust forum - it will save you far more time than you spend reading it.
If you decide to stay with your DC given the size of your shed you will need to
- add additional ventilation to vent escaped fine dust.
- locate your DC and machinery on one end/side of the shed so that ducting lengths are minimised eg <~6m total run from DC to machine
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3rd November 2019, 12:56 PM #3Senior Member
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Thanks Bob
your reply was not taken as negative, i know its not the greatest duct collector i could own. I bought it new in 2008....well before i heard about ClearVue. To date i have only used it to connect my table saw and jointer via a 3m long 4" flex hose.
Budget is pretty tight so unfortunately i will have to stick with what i currently have.
Building it a separate room is a great idea and ill definitely plan the shop around that.
Thanks for the advice
Marty
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9th November 2019, 11:31 PM #4SENIOR MEMBER
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Bob,
I'm in the middle of installing a fixed pipe extraction system into my shed. To this end I've now built a separate 3x3 metre acoustically insulated shed sitting 300mm off the back wall of my 7x5 metre workshop. Noise abatement is the reason I went for a discrete structure. I've bought a ClearVue Max which will exhaust to the outside.
I was intrigued about the reasoning behind your maximum 6m run from machine to extractor. My longest run from the bandsaw will be about 9m including the flexible pipe so now you have me thinking about its efficiency. Reconfiguring the workshop is not an attractive thought.
mick
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10th November 2019, 12:05 AM #5GOLD MEMBER
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The original poster's machine is 3hp. Your CV-Max is 5hp assuming you are running it with a variable frequency drive. It will have no issues with your 9 metre run as long as you aren't strangling it with small ducts.
Pete
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10th November 2019, 07:27 AM #6SENIOR MEMBER
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Thanks Pete. Good to have reassurance. VFD? Yes. It's going to take a while to convert the existing 100 & 125 mm machine outlets to 150mm but I can always increase airflow by adjusting another blast gate downstream if necessary.
I'm still interested to discover why a shorter run is better. Given that the volume and velocity should not change, I'm left to conclude that flow turbulence or lack of it might preclude longer runs.
mick
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10th November 2019, 09:31 AM #7.
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Wall friction increases with longer runs but that tends to be a minor effect. Usually longer runs contain more bends and junctions which add to turbulence and all that increases flow. As I have indicated many times 6m is just a guide for 3HP machines , same as 3m is just a guide for 2HP DCs. But there are heaps of other factors to consider and if you have to use longer runs they so be it.
FWIW my longest run is 12m to the underside of my TS. This was done to get the ducting feed under the concrete floor and keep the area around the TS clear of ducting. I also have a 9m run to my DP but that doesn't need much flow anyway as DPs don't make a lot of dust.
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15th November 2019, 11:33 AM #8Senior Member
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Ive been looking at the CV website and the Bill Pentz static calculator. I must be doing something wrong, if i add a small amount of 4 inch either straight pipe or flex hose...no bends or Y's it goes over 12" WC which is the recommended maximum on the spreadsheed. How much static pressure does each 4 & 6 inch bend add and is there an easy calculation i can use for straight pipe?
What would the estimated static pressure be on a system like im planning? Im re-planing my layout to reduce the pipe runs to be as short as possible and will use the 8" to 6" reducer to run the main line.
I cant seem to find many reviews/info on the DC i have...all i can find is they aren't as good ad the CV. Understand there is a difference in HP but what is the major difference that makes them not comparable?
Thanks
Marty
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15th November 2019, 12:46 PM #9SENIOR MEMBER
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in a nutshell it doesn't pull as much air, due to numerous factors such as smaller impeller, not enough power, inefficient cyclone design which then leads to poor chip separation which then leads to clogged filters which further hurts extraction.
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15th November 2019, 01:52 PM #10.
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It doesn't surprise me. 4" ducting is very restrictive and it sounds like you are using too high an expected air flow and air speeds. What Air flow and speeds are you using ?
What would the estimated static pressure be on a system like im planning? Im re-planing my layout to reduce the pipe runs to be as short as possible and will use the 8" to 6" reducer to run the main line. I cant seem to find many reviews/info on the DC i have...all i can find is they aren't as good ad the CV. Understand there is a difference in HP but what is the major difference that makes them not comparable?
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15th February 2022, 12:57 PM #11Senior Member
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15th February 2022, 02:16 PM #12.
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This is the same DC I have comment on elsewhere in these forums.
A well made (efficient) 15" impeller usually requires a 4HP motor.
Putting a 3HP motor on an efficient 15" impeller will normally result in the motor drawing too much current and burn it out.
In the case of that DC this suggests the impeller has been deliberately made inefficient (to prevent the impeller sucking too much air and hence drawing too much current) by one or more of the following
1 the impeller vanes have been reduced in size
2 the DC has been unintentionally or deliberately choked down ( eg 3 x 4" inlets, or the cyclone design)
If its the second one then opening up the inlet to 8" or removing the filters to aid air flow could result in problems.
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