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Thread: Dust Deputy fails
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28th April 2012, 03:49 PM #1GOLD MEMBER
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Dust Deputy fails
Hi, I have the DIY Oneida Dust Deputy (ODD) from Carbatec, and fitted it to a 20 litre plastic paint bucket. It is normally connected to my Festool Kapex SCMS saw, and is very effective when connected to a standard 32mmm hose on a domestic vacuum cleaner.
Today I took the vacuum cleaner and the ODD to a site to use with my router which is fitted with a spiral router bit to cut 30 W x 45 L x 26 mm D mortices, using a template and a 24mm OD template guide. The router is an old MV12 Hitachi fitted with a dust extraction fitting, to which my 32mm vacuum hose is connected. The fitting has only a small opening for the dust to be sucked out of.
I found that the vacuum cleaner shut down after about 5 minutes, and it felt quite hot. Found the dust bag was full of router dust, and the filter was clogged.There was little or no router dust in the paint bucket, it all appeared to pass straight through in to the vacuum cleaner. After cleaning, and after about an hour to cool down, it went OK again.
Within one minute of running again, connected to the router, I found the plastic paint container imploding dramatically. I switched everything off,. checked for any blockages, pushed the bucket back in to shape and started work again.
This happened several times until I was able to finish my first mortice. 7 more to do. There was strong vacuum at the end of the hose where it connects to the router, and there was no blockage in the clear plastic dust extraction fitting on the router, but as I said above, there was only a small opening on the router dust fitting near the router bit.
I would welcome an suggestions and ideas as to why this happened as it was working quite well before on the SCMS, and would welcome some ideas on what to do about it too, as I have a lot more mortices to cutregards,
Dengy
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28th April 2012 03:49 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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28th April 2012, 05:31 PM #2
Jill
From what you have said, I think the clue is that your plastic bucket is imploding. This sounds to me as though there is insufficient airflow. This may be a blockage from sawdust or more likely a larger object or a component of the ODD has failed. I understand the principle of the cyclone effect but am not familiar with the ODD.
I do know that if you clamp the palm of your hand over the end of your vacuum hose it with the vcuum switched on it will collapse the plastic bucket, garbage can etc. The vacuum cleaner attempts to pull a perfect vacuum (which it doesn't have a hope in hell of achieving) and in the process overheats.
I would look at the opening on your router and see if that is not too small. Some vacuum hoses have a small sliding vent near the handpiece. If yours has this, try opening it to increase airflow.
My other suggestion would be to connect the router directly to the vacuum and see what happens. It is just a process of eliminating a possible cause. Bear in mind that if the initial problem caused severe overheating the vacuum may have damaged and now it could overheat with almost no provocation even though the original problem has been removed.
Do you have another vacuum to try? Are you willing to try?
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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28th April 2012, 07:49 PM #3
Hi Jill,
I cannot say whether the Dust Deputy has suffered internally in the exercise, but the restriction in the dust collector at the router will be the cause of the problem.
The DD relies on a high speed airflow to circulate the router dust around the cone assembly. With sufficient speed, the particles have enough acceleration to seperate from the airflow, and can then drop into the bucket. The fact that all the dust went straight to the bag asembly suggests that there was insufficient speed through the DD to allow seperation.
Secondly, all vacuum cleaners rely on the exhaust airflow (after filtering) to cool the motor. If they cannot establish sufficient airflow, the motor speed drops and the motor works harder to develop the airflow. The motor noise also becomes louder. With the reduced airflow and increased power consumption, the motor will tend to overheat as yours did. Obvious with a household vac and crevice tool being partly obstructed, except that in the case of the household vac the obstruction is temporary, whereas with the router it is permanent.
The dust collector at the router beeds to have a fairly large and unobstructed inlet area to maintain the airflow for the rest of the system to work properly.
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28th April 2012, 08:05 PM #4
Jill, are you sure you connected the hoses the correct way on the ODD. If the dust etc is getting through to the vac, it sounds suspiciously like no cyclone effect, which reversed hoses would explain. Vacuum must connect to the top of the ODD.
Chris
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Life isn't always fair
....................but it's better than the alternative.
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28th April 2012, 08:13 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Many thanks to Bushmiller and malb for your well thought out and logical approach.
I agree with you about the restriction on the router dust fitting being the cause of the problem- looking down it, the cross sectional area where the dust comes into it near the bit is about 1/3 the area of the 32mmOD outlet tube.
I tried another vacuum cleaner connected to the ODD, and it too collapsed the plastic bucket.
In the end, to finish the first mortice, I ended up connecting the outlet directly to the domestic vac cleaner, so that filter will be well and truly clogged - will have to clean it out before proceeding with the other mortices.
I do have a Triton dust bucket , but that too has the same problem of the filter in the lid quickly clogging up
I thought of getting a stronger bucket ( metal), but I expect that would collapse too with the atmospheric pressure
so, looks like I am stuck with a direct connection to a vacuum cleaner, with frequent emptying and cleaning of the filterregards,
Dengy
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28th April 2012, 08:21 PM #6GOLD MEMBER
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Vacuum must connect to the top of the ODD
Many thanks for the suggestion, but I have it arranged such that the vacuum cleaner hose can only fit the top of the ODDregards,
Dengy
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28th April 2012, 08:34 PM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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It appears clear from what you have described that the seal on the bucket was not airtight- hence no cyclone action and dust gets sucked up into the vac.
I have had a bucket implode on me as well but managed to maintain an airtight seal.
A stronger bucket will do the trick - it doesn't create a complete vacuum in the bucket, just a partial one so it should be strong enough
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29th April 2012, 08:05 AM #8GOLD MEMBER
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thanks for your comment, TP1, but it certainly is a very air tight lid, as you would expect on a paint bucket. I have difficulty opening it.
I took the vacuum hose off the router and put my palm over it, and the bucket crumbled again immediately.
The dust normally falls in to the plastic bin when I have the ODD connected to the Kapex SCMS - much better air flow then, and nothing goes in to the vacuum cleanerregards,
Dengy
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29th April 2012, 12:52 PM #9SENIOR MEMBER
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That is intriguing! Is it possible to reduce the suction power when the DD is connected to the router? I'm just guessing here, but something is causing the cyclonic action to fail. The smaller diameter of the router outlet can cause the air velocity to increase. Since you have established that there is a strong vacuum in the DD, perhaps the higher air velocity is having an effect on the DD performance.
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29th April 2012, 03:14 PM #10
But the airflow volume to decrease.
When the reduced volume of air enters the larger pipework it's velocity will decrease and reduce the performance of the DD.
If possible provide a method to increase air flow into the pipework just after the router, to allow the DD to do it's job.Arie.
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29th April 2012, 04:42 PM #11GOLD MEMBER
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Had a closer look at it today. the restriction on air flow is actually two fold:
1) The inbuilt restriction of the dust outlet on the router fitting where it reduces to about 1/3 of the outlet tube size
and
2) The 24mmOD template guide, which is largely a big plate which covers the normal opening around the router bit, except for a 24mmOD x 6mmL cylinder surrounding the 1/4" router bit - leaves very little space for any air flow.
No wonder the poor little vacuum cleaner was strugglingregards,
Dengy
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29th April 2012, 05:22 PM #12
Jill
Good to hear you have resolved the problem. The last word will be when you return to the SCMS and everything works as before.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
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29th April 2012, 06:56 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Thanks Paul. I think that I have only found the root cause as to why the ODD does not work in this situation.
using a vacuum cleaner without a dust separator is not really a good solution for a router, as the fine dust will quickly clog the filter
not sure how best to proceed.regards,
Dengy
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29th April 2012, 07:20 PM #14SENIOR MEMBER
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I think Breez
y has the answer...
If possible provide a method to increase air flow into the pipework just after the router, to allow the DD to do it's job.
You have rightly identified the issue, large bit and guide bush restricting air flow. Also chips from the bit will block the router dust outlet much more than fine dust.
Can you fit a Y connector between the router and the cyclone? Let the router use one branch and control extra air flow into the other branch (as an experiment try using duct tapee to seal off some of the opening to get the amout of air right) with the centre connector of the Y going to the dust collector.
Good luck with it.
Chipman
I had similar problems with a shop vac trying to pic up wood chips off the floor...totally useless. It is possible to buy a bulk pick up kit for them which is basically a bigger diameter hose.
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29th April 2012, 09:57 PM #15GOLD MEMBER
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Many thanks for this , Chipman, I shall start looking for a 32mm OD Tee connector
regards,
Dengy
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