Thread: Dust Extraction for new shop

have a look at the Laguna c-flux, its a bit of a compromise between performance and price compared to the clearvue.

i don't remember the cost of delivery being that much on the clearvue to your door was a bit more but you could pick it up from most capital cities for pretty cheap (sub $200). Try not to get into the trap of "i'll buy this now and spend money and upgrade it later" it won't come off cheaper in the long run. That being said (and i'm sure bobL will chime in) if your in a factory bay with decent cross air ventilation or even being able to open a large roller door and do most of your dust making near it you might get away with something smaller. especially if you're only using 1 machine at a time and can setup some ventilation.

that sherwood extractor I think still only has a 12" impeller, I sent them an email about it once and they never got back to me. So you have to not get HP confused with the amount of air a dust extractor can move. a 5hp DC with a 12" impellor at 2800rpm will still only move the same amount of air as a 2HP DC at 2800 rpm with the same impeller size. the 5HP motor can just handle the motor currents better. The only way to move more air is to spin the impeller faster (more current required so more HP required) OR use a bigger impeller (more current required so more HP required). the Laguna I mentioned earlier actually has a 15" impeller but i'd say is more on the "premium grade chinese" products then the Clearvue which is a properly made piece of equipment.

if you use 6" ducting, but reduce it down to 5" at the intake, you might as well use 5" the whole way. you can't squeeze the 6" ducting amount of air through a 5" hole. It becomes the choke point. You'd be better off modding the intake to 6" from the start.

I have a couple of rules these days

15" impeller minimum
Three phase motor controlled by a Variable Frequency Drive
Never use a single phase dust extractor

The Clearvue was designed for maximum separation exceeding 99% for only one reason and that was because the US market customers nearly without exception re-circulate the air through filters due to climate issues of either very low temperatures or exceedingly high humidity and they condition the air in their mostly basement workshops because of this. The Asian cyclones using a short cone and no neutral ramp will not get anywhere near that separation and in some circumstances that may work well for the user.

A three phase motor allows the user in Australia to match the motor speed dust extractors operate at in the US. Just about every Clearvue in Oz uses a VFD to increase the motor speed from 2850 here to 3450 which is the standard speed in the US and has multiple other advantages as well

Soft start
Unlimited motor re-starts per hour
Total speed control for whatever occasion, sometimes it can be beneficial to slow the DE for any number of reasons.
Low start up current draw, usually from around 80amps to under 15 amps.
Allows a 240V THREE PHASE motor to be run from a 15 amp 240V power point.

The motors can be sourced here and importing one is not needed or recommended. We used the Leeson motor in Oz but then that motor was banned by the US government and we then used Teco motors sourced in Oz for Clearvue Cyclones. For the average workshop a 15" impeller running at 60 hertz /3450 RPM using 150mm ducting will do an excellent job. 150mm ducting is actually a bit small but the ideal size is simply not available in Oz. If you want to have a look at such a set up contact me via PM and I can show you my system which is exactly that. Seeing an existing system and talking about it will remove all your confusion in a very short time.

Thanks for the recommendation on the c-flux. It definitely looks like it adopts more of the Bill Pentz principles and claims to have 1300 CFM which I think would be adequate for my purposes even if that number is exaggerated.

I do have a large roller door and a side door which would allow for decent cross ventilation. I would also build an airtight enclosure for the DE and vent to the outside. I don't think I have the option of having the DE outside the shop but it seems like an airtight enclosure that vents to the outside is the next best option. The small impellers on the DE available seem to be the bottle neck...I see what you're saying about the trap of buying something now that needs to be upgraded later and it is a very tempting trap. I will avoid that trap the best I can.

And thank you for your insight on the 5" to 6" intake. I thought that would be the case but glad to have it confirmed.

Hi Chris,

Thank you for sharing your rules. Any idea where to source a 15" impeller? I don't know if I'm looking in all the wrong places but I am having trouble finding them. I would love to build my own system with a 15" impeller, a 3 phase motor controlled by a VFD, and a fabricated cyclone to Bill Pentz specs.

I do have access to 3 phase power in my factory.

I will contact you via PM - I would love to have a look at your system. Thank you!

Is difficult for anyone to provide detailed appropriate advice without knowing the following.

How big (area and height) is your factory space.
What natural ventilation is available - ie window and roller door size and location
What size/type of machinery do you have planned?
How many people do you plan to have working there
Do you plan to be resawing/resizing and dressing none, some, most,or all of your timber?

Welcome Cody

Another welcome form here too.

I don't know how the prices on a C-flux and Clear Vue compare in your neck of the wood but the Lagunas are as expensive as a Clear Vue here. When one of the local wood turners asked me some questions on dust collection he said he was buying a C-flux until I pointed out a CV 1800 was only slightly more and the CV Max just several hundred more. He didn't hesitate to order a Max.

Pete

Hi Bob,

My factory space is approximately 3.4 x 7.5 x 7 (This is the planned space size. The actual space is about 50% larger but I am planning to build a wall to divide the space. I am splitting the space with my fiance who is an artist so the DE will become important in keeping dust away from her artwork, finishes on my furniture, etc.). Furthermore I plan to build an airtight enclosure for the DE that vents to the outside. I don't have the ability to house the DE outside of my factory space but I am confident I can build an enclosure that is very close to airtight. I have a roller door directly in front of where I am planning on setting up my woodworking shop area. The area of the roller door fully opened is 2.7 m x 4.3 (11.61m2).

The shop equipment I plan on purchasing is as follows:

-16" Thicknesser
-6"-8" jointer
-12" Table saw
-Festool orbital sander and Festool Domino hooked up to Festool Dust Extractor
-Bandsaw (10"-14")
-Router Table
-I am sure there will be other machines I use but I believe the above will be the most dust producing machines

I will be the only one working in the shop to begin with. However, my fiance is sharing the space with me and will be using the other portion of the space as a graphic design office, artwork studio. Part of the business plan is for me to build frames for the artworks she creates.

I do plan on resawing/resizing as much timber as possible. My current plan is to use as much recycled timber as possible. I have even toyed with the idea of fabricating my own miniature bandsaw mill to mill small logs and build furniture from the very first stages through to the end. This may be a bit of a pipe dream but a dream nonetheless.

Thank you for your response and for taking the time to read/ respond to my enquires.

Many thanks,

Cody

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your reply. I am tempted to save up a bit more for the c flux but I am still trying to determine if I might be able to build my own, more efficient system for cheaper. The other hold up with the Clearvue DE is the lead time. On the US site it currently states a lead time of 6-8 weeks. I am guessing it is at least the same for Australian consumers and if I can source the materials to make a system just as good for the same price or less I would be more inclined to do that. I really do love the Clearvue system and it seems very convenient to pursue that route but I don't want to spend more money than I can afford on dust extraction and be saving up money for several months trying to save up money to but the rest of my woodworking machinery. If you wouldn't mind sharing, would you be willing to let me know what you ended up spending on your CVMax+ price of ducting? Basically what did you spend on your DE system as whole? Please feel free to private message me if you don't feel comfortable sharing the information publicly.

Thank you for your reply!

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Another welcome form here too.

I don't know how the prices on a C-flux and Clear Vue compare in your neck of the wood but the Lagunas are as expensive as a Clear Vue here. When one of the local wood turners asked me some questions on dust collection he said he was buying a C-flux until I pointed out a CV 1800 was only slightly more and the CV Max just several hundred more. He didn't hesitate to order a Max.

Pete

I think it depends on which c-flux and your Clearvue options... the C flux I bought was $2950 the quote I got for a clearvue was $4000, but that was with a $400 VFD. so really base model clearvue was $3600. but you still need to mount it, attach a bin to it, possibly add a VFD to get the most out of it.

it also depends on your work shop, I would have only JUST.... maybe... if I tilted it get a clearvue in my garage work shop. where the C flux was just a more compact unit, but that compactness came at a performance cost and probably a money cost but to quote a funny youtuber by the name AVE "sometimes you just gotta with the cock you got". it was also single phase which again as a home hobbyist is all I have. I'm not trying to blow smoke up the C-flux's rear end and claim its superior machine.... its just another option for the OP to consider.

That being said sounds like the OP has a decent sized factory bay with 3 phase so might not have these issues.

Hi verawood.

Thank you for the welcome. I am looking forward to the advice and opinions offered on this forum.

-Cody

Hi haveabeer69 (giggity),

The cflux is definitely an option. However if I can get away with paying a similar amount and building my own DE system I think I would prefer that. I do have the advantage of having 3 phase power as well as a relatively large factory space to work in. My challenge right now is sourcing the various individual parts to assemble an efficient and effective DE system.

I also was curious what your experience with the C flux has been? Are you happy with your purchase and has it suited your needs in your shop? Also what are the demands currently for your cflux?

Thanks for taking the time to offer your help and advice!

Cody I thought I would see what I could search out for places in Australia you might be able to get an impeller from, maybe as a replacement part. The prices might be obscene or might be just affordable. I suppose as a last resort you could measure up a CV impeller or find a drawing from similar and make it too although I would leave the welding to experts. Once you line up an impeller then making the Bill Pentz cyclone becomes a possibility. You could make the parts for several and sell those to others on the forum if it brings down the costs by averaging set up time over the extras.

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Pete

PS. I deliberately looked for industrial suppliers and not the hobby sellers.

Thanks for the links Pete! I will get in touch with the companies you provided and see if they come back with anything affordable. Fingers crossed!

Also, your idea about getting an impeller made - I like that idea as well. I was thinking I could potentially find a drawing of one and get that made up, then attach a suitable motor to it, build the cyclone to spec and finally source some filters. Maybe I'll even get to use it to extract some wood dust some day!