Thread: Dust extraction upgrade at Roy Schack's workshop

Looks professional Pete, very impressive. Looking forward to the next installment

Looks good Pete.

If you want top get rid of the saw dust in the corners of the cabinet (and I also don't see any need to do that) just cut some holes in the corners. You will need quite large holes to get rid of it all - something like 2" siam

Originally Posted by BobL

Looks good Pete.

If you want top get rid of the saw dust in the corners of the cabinet (and I also don't see any need to do that) just cut some holes in the corners. You will need quite large holes to get rid of it all - something like 2" siam

Yes, we did discuss providing cross flow ventilation by adding some holes in the far side, I suspect we would have had to block off some/all? of the gap/s around the top of the cabinet to be effective, we decided on a suck and see kind off approach, I think in the end just leave it as is will do




Pete

I have the same jointer as Roy, (just a different sticker) even down to the same dodgy OEM dust chute, mine never worked and neither did Roy use his, he had made up a flat ply sheet with one 100mm outlet to suit the hose on the floor and then out to the dusty, I suspected this blocked up all the time
Jointer with 100mm outlet.jpgjointer filled with shavings.jpgand it did!!

With mine I made up a twin outlet but it's not as good as it could be so in conjunction with Roy's job I got the sheeties to make 2 chutes with 150mm outlets, I'll do a different thread on my mods another time.
To make use of gravity I angle the chute at about 45°, this means the jointer needs to be packed up off the floor by 100mm or so, standard height for this machine I think is too low anyway, Roy made up some swisho packers/feet and we manhandled the jointer up onto them and on went the chute.
jointer dust chute.jpgview from inside jointer dust chute.jpg
The chute probably could go on at a lesser angle but the airspeed at chute entrance might need to be quite high to carry the dust round the bend especially if it were up near level. Alternatively, it could be made with a longer entrance which would allow mounting higher up and be at 45°, one of those hindsight moments but as it is it does allow for a large access into the chute via the cover plate if ever needed, swings and roundabouts I guess.

And the finished chute
Jointer all hooked up.jpg
Another big improvement over what was before, only other thing to do here is block up some of the large gaps under the outfeed table to improve dust pickup right at the cutter head, the proviso here tho is keep an eye on the manometer to maintain flow as much as possible.



Pete

I didn't do any mods to the drum sander hood, basically just hooked up a 100mm hose to each of the outlets, the old setup was each outlet hooked upto a 100mm wye and then out to the dusty via 5m of hose laying on the floor, in use it would leave a trail of dust on the belt which would fall onto the floor
100mm wye off the drum sander.jpg

The outlets on the hood are 100mm pipe without a flange, so I cut some 100mm ish long pieces which I put some splits in up the length and then formed a flange on the end, I then forced (gently hammered) onto/over the original outlets and then a hose clamp to keep it in place, worked well
closeup DS outlet.jpg

Next was fit the blast gates, these are very nice units from Eximo (no association) they have a teflon/rubber seal either side of the plate
twin 100mm outlets on DS.jpg

In the main line overhead I installed two 100mm duct entries and hose tails, connection of the two hoses completed the drum sander, no piccies with the hoses
Roy working on the DS.jpg

Now in use there is no dust (visible) falling on the floor, at a guess the flow has more than doubled over what it was before



Pete

Originally Posted by BobL

Looks good Pete.

If you want top get rid of the saw dust in the corners of the cabinet (and I also don't see any need to do that) just cut some holes in the corners. You will need quite large holes to get rid of it all - something like 2" siam

If the residue is fairly static you could draw round it with a marker pen then get rid of the dust and fill the marked area with putty or body filler gently curved on the surface. Just an idea not one I have tried

Shedman

Originally Posted by shedman

If the residue is fairly static you could draw round it with a marker pen then get rid of the dust and fill the marked area with putty or body filler gently curved on the surface. Just an idea not one I have tried

Shedman

That would probably work - but - why empty it to fill it with something else when the sawdust isn't doing any harm?

I would not use car bog for it. It is a right PITA to sand on a concave surface. I founed that out the hard way in smoothing some surface transitions when rebuilding my cyclone.

Doug

I think the left behind sawdust will be fine just left alone, even if it builds up a bit over time and becomes thicker it will probably form to a shape that won't allow any more to build up and if it's an issue being there it would just be a matter of a quick scrape and it's gone (with DE on)
If I were to do anymore to it I would cut some triangular shaped pieces larger than the left behind sawdust and slope it quite steep 45° or thereabouts, for the moment we will just see what happens





Pete

It was fortuitous that the ducting from Carbatec was 200mm (and some 100mm stuff) the 200mm fitted nicely straight onto the inlet of the dusty, the dusty is positioned outside so we came straight up and thru the workshop wall then off to each machine, where possible we went as far as practical with 200 then stepped down to the gate size
pipe thru the wall.jpgcontinuing with pipe.jpgmore piping to machines.jpg

The first pic is the fan inlet housing flange (upside down) fitted to a piece of pipe, the inlet had a small rolled lip that was contra to flow so I flattened it out, you can see the dusty in the background.
Where possible we worked to full lengths of pipe but inevitability there was some pipe cutting and flange forming, in the abscence of a set of rolls I use a hammer to form a flange
DE inlet fitting to 200mm pipe.jpgme marking out ready to cut.jpgme forming a flange.jpg

Roy wanted a floor sweep so I suggested we not put a clamp on the bandsaw hose and swap it over to a floor sweep, which I fashioned out of the old original jointer dust chute
Bandsaw all hooked up.jpgFloor sweep.jpg

After all was complete I rigged up a quick rough manometer made from some 5mm clear tube
basic manometer.jpgPressdrop2.jpg

All testing was done as per nomal operation, bags were about 1/4 full and filters on, filters were blocked up where the cleaning paddle doesn't reach so we gave the filters a quick blow out with compressed air prior to testing.

First up I closed all gates and with a rule measured the difference between the water levels which gives a static pressure of 162mm, this figure is handy if ever we were to contemplate a different fan wheel design or machine, there probably is some leakage via the gates so this will probably be higher if I had of done this with the pipe blocked off at the first joint above the manometer, all joins were taped so should be minimum leakage there.

next I opened up one gate at a time
bandsaw=142 4" pipe
table saw=72 6" pipe
jointer=70 6"
thicknessor=115 5"
disc sander=90 5"
drum sander=98 2x4"
everything open=33 8" (I have taken with every gate open to be equivalent to 8" pipe)

reading from the chart
for the bs flow is around 300cfm
ts about 700
jointer about 700
thicky about 650
disc s about 450
drum s about 500 (2x250)
everything about 900 cfm

From this we see that if every machine had 200mm pipe and dust chute/hood and adequate flow into chute via the machine that we could get close to the ideal flow rate of 1000cfm from the 3 hp dusty but 200mm is not always a practical option, next best are the 5 and 6" pipe sizes and a machine that is capable of producing around 7" of pressure, Roy's machine is capable of close to that (162mm)(maybe more) but for it to flow another 300cfm we would need to increase fan speed, this is easily done via a variable speed drive, however, the fan wheel design may limit achieving this tho as performance may start to drop off too much with continued speed increase, but that is for another day.

Also from the above tests pipe size is very much a controlling factor in how much flow we can get thru a pipe, (given the average dusty) the bandsaw would benefit from an additional outlet and the disc sander could benefit from allowing more air into the shroud, all in all tho massive improvements have been made to the workshop with now a little tweaking here and there and maybe a bigger/better/faster dusty/cyclone.



Pete

Thanks Pete
Much detail and info you have given us all
My DE is turning up today. I have 150 stomwater pipe but hope to make it as good as yours

Russell

Good post pete
Sure shows up the problems with the 4 and 5" ducting. But just in case some newbies are reading this just changing the ducting would not be enough, the port sizes on the machines and the ability of a machine to breathe is critical. For example most band saw connections are very ineffective

Yeah the gates are a bit of a bugger - that's where I lose most of my pressure from.

Was there a reason you went with metal V PVC?

Originally Posted by BobL

Good post pete
Sure shows up the problems with the 4 and 5" ducting. But just in case some newbies are reading this just changing the ducting would not be enough, the port sizes on the machines and the ability of a machine to breathe is critical. For example most band saw connections are very ineffective

Yeah the gates are a bit of a bugger - that's where I lose most of my pressure from.

Was there a reason you went with metal V PVC?

As I understand it, an order was placed with Carbatec that the customer then didn't want, Roy was in the right place at the right time and got a deal on the metal ducting, gates and accessories, this is the gear we went to pick up on Saturday on my first visit, we had a look at what he had and then what was needed to get a good system in place, Roy has woodwork classes so has students, to be time effective Roy ordered the remaining metal fittings from Eximo, when the time was right it was just a case of install.



Pete

Originally Posted by pjt

As I understand it, an order was placed with Carbatec that the customer then didn't want, Roy was in the right place at the right time and got a deal on the metal ducting, gates and accessories, this is the gear we went to pick up on Saturday on my first visit, we had a look at what he had and then what was needed to get a good system in place, Roy has woodwork classes so has students, to be time effective Roy ordered the remaining metal fittings from Eximo, when the time was right it was just a case of install.

Pete

Thanks

Originally Posted by rusel

Thanks Pete
Much detail and info you have given us all
My DE is turning up today. I have 150 stomwater pipe but hope to make it as good as yours

Russell

Thanks Russel, I like to show what I'm upto and why along with the odd chart, it helps us all.


Pete