Thread: Which Dust Extractor would you buy?

Check the specifications for the units you are interested in for their the db values

I saw:
Karcher is 71 db
Fein is 67 db
Festool 74 db

3 db corresponds to a doubling of sound energy = doubling of noise

BUT there's no guarantee that the noise levels were measured to the same standard.

other factors:
length of power cord
capacity of machine to supply power to a tool
capacity of filter bag
cost of replaceable filter bags


where keeping the noise down to satisfy the neighbours or your own family is an issue, your

i'm only an enthusiast that does projects every few weekends

is possibly more important than it would be to a professional who might well work in an industrial area where noise complaints are unheard of

While the Fein and Festool is undoubtedly good for collecting dust, in not sure if Karcher is in the same range.

Originally Posted by ian

in an industrial area where noise complaints are unheard of [/COLOR]

Well said Ian, in an industrial area you can't hear the complaints over the background noise.

I would classify all the products you are looking at as vacuum cleaners not dust extractors.

But, good advice from Ian there wwf9984. Unfortunately, even if you go and audition them, if you can't do them all in the one venue it really doesn't get you too much further down the track. This is where it's nice if there is an official standard so you can be sure you're comparing apples with apples. Good luck with it.

Cheers,
David

I can't say much for the others, but I've a Festool CT33. It's older than those sold today, but it's very good. It is paired to a mini cyclone DustDeputy, which is fantastic.

fence Furniture recommended the 35mm hose which made a huge difference.

If I were to do it again, I'd buy Aldavs cyclone rather than the dust deputy simply because it has bigger input and output sockets. The Festool can suck like crazy and completely dominates the 50mm pipe running from the machine to the DD. When using it for cleanup I use a few metres (10?) of 2" gray flex to the DD... In fact, my wife has used the setup to vacuum the courtyard, which had me in two minds.... It does make an excellent shop vac too....

Naturally, it isn't used for work outside of hand held tools. Everything else uses the big dust collector... But both are used in the studio.

If you do buy a vac without auto-on, you can use a remote power activator such as Kambrook, Aldi or Jaycar.

I have a festool shop vac that I picked up second-hand,the nice thing about the festool ones is that you can adjust the suction power via a control knob.
Certain jobs don't require the maximum suction so you can use it on a lower setting which dramatically reduces it's noise levels.
The bags are a bit expensive though,but with my 22 litre model a pack of 5 replacement bags can last me up to 12 months.
I do however only use mine for the tracksaw and sanders only and not for any floor vacuuming etc.
Most of my machines are connected to a 2HP DC with the bag and filter placed outside,fortunately my neighbours are out most of the time so no complaints so far !

Can you further explain the difference between a dust extractor and a vacuum cleaner?
Also what model would be a true dust extractor?

Originally Posted by aldav

Well said Ian, in an industrial area you can't hear the complaints over the background noise.

I would classify all the products you are looking at as vacuum cleaners not dust extractors.

But, good advice from Ian there wwf9984. Unfortunately, even if you go and audition them, if you can't do them all in the one venue it really doesn't get you too much further down the track. This is where it's nice if there is an official standard so you can be sure you're comparing apples with apples. Good luck with it.

Cheers,
David

Originally Posted by wwf9984

Can you further explain the difference between a dust extractor and a vacuum cleaner?
Also what model would be a true dust extractor?

Any high pressure, low volume machine I would classify as a vacuum cleaner. Dust collectors/extractors are low pressure, high volume machines like these

Cheers,
David

I have those DC you're talking about. This machine is strictly for sanding, circular saw, jigsaw, smaller power tools , cleaning up dust, etc.

While it's all a bit of hair splitting, a dust extractor immediately removes dust from a space, so even if that dust is inside a filter or bag inside that space one might say it has not been extracted. Dust extraction is a term that usually applies to a large industrial machine usually located outside the space. Locating a vacuum cleaner or any other form of dust collection outside a space will thus make it a dust collector.

where fine dust is concerned leaving any vacuum cleaner or dust collector inside a shed is a sure way of increasing the fine dust content of a shed because un fortunately they all (eventually) leak. Vacuum cleaners contribute further to fine dust loads by their motor cooling loops mincing fine dust into many more fine dust particles

Originally Posted by wwf9984

I have those DC you're talking about. This machine is strictly for sanding, circular saw, jigsaw, smaller power tools , cleaning up dust, etc.

Personally I think the CT 17 is a bit on the small size, and is really designed to be carried around inside a house, much like the CTL SYS -- but I can see why it's attractive to you.

I suppose it comes down to how much dust you expect to collect each month.
If it's lots, the CT 17 may be too small
If it's not much, then the CT 17 could be the go.

You may wish to look at one of the Makita vacs, such as the 446L. The latest Fine Woodworking Tools Review rated the Makita -- US model -- as the best buy

Anyone had experience with the Karcher?

Originally Posted by ian

Check the specifications for the units you are interested in for their the db values

I saw:
Karcher is 71 db
Fein is 67 db
Festool 74 db

3 db corresponds to a doubling of sound energy = doubling of noise

BUT there's no guarantee that the noise levels were measured to the same standard.

other factors:
length of power cord
capacity of machine to supply power to a tool
capacity of filter bag
cost of replaceable filter bags


where keeping the noise down to satisfy the neighbours or your own family is an issue, your is possibly more important than it would be to a professional who might well work in an industrial area where noise complaints are unheard of [/COLOR]

I have had the Fein Dustex 25 for several years. It was purchased partly as it was reputed to be quiet, and partly because it was a lot cheaper than the Festool equivelent. It was never quiet enough to forgo hearing protection, but still was significantly lower than the Shopvac it replaced. The neighbours seemed happy. On the occasions that I use a router (my old Elu has terrific dust control), I really appreciated the automatic start.

A few months back the Fein stopped working. The mother board gave up the ghost. The quote for repair was rediculous - half the price of a new machine, which was now a lot higher than when I purchased it. So, with the blessing of loving wife, I bit the bullet and purchased a Festool CT26. This is about 50% more that the Fein, but it is definitely quieter (those db figures are inaccurate), and I can use it without hearing protection. It has all the same features as the Fein, plus seems to have a higher level of suck (I have collapsed both a steel waste bin and a thick plastic barrel, into which ran a dust commander).

The Fein lives on. I had a brainstorm and simply by-passed the electronics. Gone are all the computerised controls, and it is now just a single speed vacuum cleaner. It remains louder than the Festool.

If considering a Festool, but the price of the larger machines appears to be too great, consider the small machines. From what I can gather, they all have the same motor and suck. Hooked to a Dust Deputy, the storage is irrelevant.

On a train from London to Devon

Derek

Another shop vac worth looking at is the Bosch GAS 50. The thing about it that impressed me is that it's dust class M and not L like for instance the Festool, the Milwaukee and some others that I investigated. About the same price here in NZ as the Festool 35l one.
It's pretty noisy i.m.o., and I wasn't too impressed with the tools that come with it in terms of connectivity. Obviously it connects just fine to Bosch gear. I got a connectivity kit from Rockler and now it also works well with my Makita bisquit jointer, and various other bits and bobs I have (plus I got an extra length of hose). I've spent a fair bit of time with my sander hooked up to it today (it's got one of those autostart sockets b.t.w.) and there wasn't any dust on my clothes, nor did I feel like sneezing, coughing or get a scratchy voice. No visible dust on the assembly table, either. Fair.

Originally Posted by ian

You may wish to look at one of the Makita vacs, such as the 446L. The latest Fine Woodworking 2016 Tool Guide rated the Makita -- US model -- as the best buy

Fine Woodworking looked at
Makita VC4710, noise level 59db (which I think is a miss print) -- rated Editor's choice (Street price USD $550)
Rigid WD1450, noise level 90db -- rated Best value (Street price USD $100)
Festool CT 36L, noise level 71db -- rated Reader's Choice (Street price USD $700)

Based on "reader's ratings" the magazine listed in order
4.76 (out of 5) Festool CT 36L
4.09 Milwaukee 8936-20
3.94 Makita VC47100
3.88 DeWalt DWV012
3.84 Rigid WD1450
3.61 Shop vac 975-16-11
note all the above are US models

you're looking at
Karcher MV 6 P Premium, noise level 71 db
Fein Dustex 25 L, noise level 67 db
Festool CT 17, noise level 74 db

For comparison, this web site Noise Level Chart: dB Levels of Common Sounds provides these noise levels

dBA	Example	Home & Yard Appliances	Workshop & Construction
0	healthy hearing threshold
10	a pin dropping
20	rustling leaves
30	whisper
40	babbling brook	computer
50	light traffic	refrigerator
60	conversational speech	air conditioner
70	shower	dishwasher
75	toilet flushing	vacuum cleaner
80	alarm clock	garbage disposal
85	passing diesel truck	snow blower
90	squeeze toy	lawn mower	arc welder
95	inside subway car	food processor	belt sander
100	motorcycle (riding)		handheld drill
105	sporting event		table saw
110	rock band		jackhammer
115	emergency vehicle siren		riveter
120	thunderclap		oxygen torch
125	balloon popping
130	peak stadium crowd noise
135	air raid siren
140	jet engine at takeoff

so based on the above table, all three units you're looking at should be "quite enough" to keep the family and neighbours happy