Thread: Dust Extractor Options - now that ClearVue isnt one ?

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

There is a CV Max for sale on this forum now and Gregory Machinery had one short cone cyclone with 16" impeller left in stock early last week, beyond that making one is the answer AFAIK. Major Woodworking has none in stock and the rest use small impellers under 15", the Laguna from Carbatec or Trend Timbers might be a starter depending on the impeller size.

Hi Chris. Thanks for the info. For the life of me I can't see a CVMAX for sale. Is it not listed now? ... Also, Hypothetical question (probably forever hypothetical unless I can nab a used one), I have a 1 man single phase shop and was planing on a CV1800, however my main concern is keeping things as quiet as possible. I was reading on this forum about VFD's and using 50 over 60 htz to keep noise (and suction)down ... Would a CVMAX an lower hertz offer the same suction as an CV1800 but quieter? and would then reducing the runs to 6" then be then feasible?

Originally Posted by aleron

Hi Chris. Thanks for the info. For the life of me I can't see a CVMAX for sale.

Yes, but negotiations are underway with it.


General Scroll Saw, Festool Linear Sander, Clearvue Max

Originally Posted by aleron

Hi Chris. Thanks for the info. For the life of me I can't see a CVMAX for sale. Is it not listed now? ... Also, Hypothetical question (probably forever hypothetical unless I can nab a used one), I have a 1 man single phase shop and was planing on a CV1800, however my main concern is keeping things as quiet as possible. I was reading on this forum about VFD's and using 50 over 60 htz to keep noise (and suction)down ... Would a CVMAX an lower hertz offer the same suction as an CV1800 but quieter? and would then reducing the runs to 6" then be then feasible?

That was the reason the Max was invented, maybe if you asked on this forum if someone has a Max you could see it working, that would give you a better idea of noise levels. By putting your general geographic location such as a suburb in your profile instead of Australia someone could volunteer to show you.

BrettGG, if you are venting outside, don't think a cyclone is required. You could use a 3HP, 2 bag collector that has a large enough impeller (13+") . In fast, that's what BobL uses.

I am fortunate enough to live in US and am in the process of building a shed and installing a ClearVue. (My plan was the post build-along posts here, but I feel bad now that you guys can't buy the cyclone.)

However, before I bought the ClearVue, I seriously considered a Powermatic PM1900 or Felder AF22 bag collector. The worst part about the bag collector is that it blows the fine particles back into your workspace, but if you are venting outside, that's not a concern.

Mark

Just buy a dc3 with a pleated filter, plenty good enough fir garage hobby use.

Assuming that the exhaust isn't too visible (ie separator works well) I'm planning to vent outside, so from my understanding filters or bags are not necessary, right? Three-phase is available, shed is fairly long (16m), and CNC is on wishlist, so was intending CV solution. What's a decent substitute? Current dusty doesn't seem to pull enough to even empty the dust from the saw cabinet (old dusty, no mods)

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

Just buy a dc3 with a pleated filter, plenty good enough fir garage hobby use.

I agree, if 6" ducting is used in a single car DIY garage, a 3HP DC especially with pleated filters is going to generate the max airflow that can get through 6" ducting at 50Hz.

Systems that pull more air than this are really only required if larger machinery is in use and /or more than one person regularly operates dust making machinery in the workspace.

The next most cost effective improvements in airflow is not necessarily using a bigger extractor, but in opening up and improving dust ports on machinery. This is also the case on 2HP DCs.

Additional flow through 6" ducting really only can be obtained by using a 3P motor to run impellers at higher speeds.
Just bear in mind that running a 3P 3HP @ 50Hz powered impeller at 60Hz will draw more power and can easily over heat the motor.
I tried this with several 3HP 3P motors and they both drew over 12A.
If you want to run even a smaller impeller at 60Hz you will probably need to use a 4HP motor.
If you try this with a 3HP and it doesn't draw more power then your ducting/ports are almost certainly choked.

Even if you have say 2 people using a small workshop, the chances of them both making large amounts of dust at the same time are small. To cater for when that does happen a cost effective fine dust control is to aadd some forced ventilation. This also helps with dust from hand and power tools that is not adequately collected.

Originally Posted by lyricnz

Assuming that the exhaust isn't too visible (ie separator works well) I'm planning to vent outside, so from my understanding filters or bags are not necessary, right? Three-phase is available, shed is fairly long (16m), and CNC is on wishlist, so was intending CV solution. What's a decent substitute? Current dusty doesn't seem to pull enough to even empty the dust from the saw cabinet (old dusty, no mods)

mod your dusty and see how it goes.

I wrote back to the OP in a DM basically asking my opinion of the C flux or why i chose the laguna C flux over a clear vue.

at the time it basically came down to 4 things
Space - the C flux was going to work in the space I had with no extra costs or modifications. the Clear vue I still had to buy or make a drum to fit and even then I would probably have still had to tilt it on its side due to small height I had
Performance - C flux will actually state its actual CFM (1300) and not just a theory number put out by most of the knock off 2hp's, so performance while not perfect was still pretty decent as it has a larger 15" impeller
Electrical supply - I only have single phase so the C flux could easily just plug into a 15amp socket, no need for a VFD or anything to get it to work like the Clearvue would need.
Cost - I bought mine at the end of 2020, for $2950 and I could pick it up for free from the Sydney carbatec store. the Clearvue was close to $1000 more expensive by the time I got it delivered to my door and i would still need to mount/install and build a drum for it.

I 100% acknowledged that the Clearvue would have been the superior unit. but it was a balance of the 4 things above so at the time was more practical and cheaper to go with the smaller c flux and sacrifice the performance. I see now that the C flux is $3900 so has crept up nearly $1000 more in a year and a bit.

Originally Posted by havabeer69

Performance - C flux will actually state its actual CFM (1300) and not just a theory number put out by most of the knock off 2hp's, so performance while not perfect was still pretty decent as it has a larger 15" impeller

This supposition has a few problems. The first one is that all Performance figures are not just wishful thinking done by a salesman as most appear to be and the second is that that they are quoted at 60hz for the US and not 50z as the rest of the world generally uses.

When the CV became available in Oz there was not the plethora of Asian cyclones around for the average hobbyist and the mind set surrounding DE has changed hugely.

Originally Posted by NeilS

... Most men's sheds will have a few chaps that could knock up a cyclone body to the Pentz spec, as could many home workshoppers. The cyclone body doesn't have to be made from sheet metal or thermoformed plastic if those are not in your skill set. Laminated bent wood, coopered wood staves, woodturned components, fibreglass, routed segments, scrapyard components and 3D-printing (just kidding on that last one) are all possibilities. ...

Surely, any sheet metal shop could knock up a cyclone for a reasonable price. Now a cyclone in stainless steel would look real sexy!

And a bit of lateral thinking ... witches hats are cyclone shaped.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Surely, any sheet metal shop could knock up a cyclone for a reasonable price. Now a cyclone in stainless steel would look real sexy!

And a bit of lateral thinking ... witches hats are cyclone shaped.

Graham, 10 years ago I was quoted about $1000 to make the body and fan housing which was never going to fly as it was cheaper to import a CV. Today it is entirely switched around but it still won't be a cheap option because you need to add an impeller and motor + VFD to match a CV. Getting the impeller made in quantity would reduce that cost but the cyclone body and fan housing would be a moving target depending on where it was made. Maybe a company such as this could knock out impeller components at an affordable cost and they might also cut the body and fan housing ready to be assembled.
Laser Cutting Steel Brass Alumium Copper Stainless - Alumac Industries

Thank you havabeer69 for sharing your decision making rationale on the Laguna. I recently acquired a P-Flux3 and had similar reasons- with portability also being important for me as I have to move the machine periodically for access to a storage area.

Originally Posted by havabeer69

Electrical supply - I only have single phase so the C flux could easily just plug into a 15amp socket...

The 2022 C/P Flux3 machines from Carbatec come with a 15A plug installed (contrary to some of their online info.) The manual says the machine will draw 22A (presumably at 60Hz though) and the motor itself is rated at 14A on its spec plate. The manual also recommends installing a 30A+ Type D breaker. I'm interested on your electrical setup re breakers etc.

My electrician suggested installing a 30A breaker on a 15A outlet was not good practice. If the machine needs this sized breaker I thought perhaps having a 30A single phase socket and plug installed would be a safe option. I will take the electrician's advice but anyone's experiences in this area would be welcome input.

Originally Posted by emmjay

The 2022 C/P Flux3 machines from Carbatec come with a 15A plug installed (contrary to some of their online info.) The manual says the machine will draw 22A (presumably at 60Hz though) and the motor itself is rated at 14A on its spec plate. The manual also recommends installing a 30A+ Type D breaker. I'm interested on your electrical setup re breakers etc.

My electrician suggested installing a 30A breaker on a 15A outlet was not good practice. If the machine needs this sized breaker I thought perhaps having a 30A single phase socket and plug installed would be a safe option. I will take the electrician's advice but anyone's experiences in this area would be welcome input.

Emmjay - I have recently purchased a C-Flux3. There is discrepancy over Amp ratings. Suppliers website says 15A, plug supplied with machine 15A, owners manual says "Full Load Amperage Draw at 230V 14A" and "Circuit Size 30A minimum".

Over the past 8 weeks it has only run for 2 due to the switch box failing. I have received a completely new switch box and, to the suppliers credit, they paid a local electrician to install the new box which lasted a couple days with minimal use. At the time of the switch box replacement the suppliers said Laguna recommend a 20A breaker which they also paid for.
I have since received a new updated switch box circuit board which lasted a couple weeks after one of the Ceramic Capacitors blew. The older board uses 2 MOV's instead of 6 CC's. I suspect one of the Metal Oxide Veristors on the old board has also failed with the startup load.

All these issues were at start up which never once triggered either the 15A or 20A breaker at the mains box.

It looks like the P-Flux has a different box and possibly different internals so the above may not be completely relevant to you

In any case, I would have a good chat with your supplier as to what Laguna presently recommend as website information and owner manuals appear contradictory.

I'm curious to know what the startup amperage surge is? Would you have a clamp on ammeter to check? I had a DC7 type 3hp DC once and the starting amps were much higher than the continuous. The electronics should be made to handle it though.

Pete