Thread: Dust Extractor Options - now that ClearVue isnt one ?

He assured me some weeks ago that he was going to pull the site down.

Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork

In any case, I would have a good chat with your supplier as to what Laguna presently recommend as website information and owner manuals appear contradictory.

I wrote to both Laguna and Carbatec. Laguna advised me that they had referred the question to Carbatec, as it related to Australian electrical issues. Carbatec advised that the machine and wiring does meet Australian standards. In relation to the manual recommending a breaker rated at double the machine's nominal 15A plug capacity and motor amp draw of 14A they advised that my electrician will be better able to answer this. So alas the response did not resolve the concern about installing a 30A breaker on a 15A outlet.

Originally Posted by Fallen Woodwork

It looks like the P-Flux has a different box and possibly different internals so the above may not be completely relevant to you

Yes you are correct. The P-Flux also has a small motor to turn the cleaning paddle, a sensor in the bin to detect its fullness, and an LED in the bin to ensure you can enjoy the optimal dust viewing experience The cleaning motor is rated at 0.28A so not likely to have a big impact on the overall current draw.

As an aside to these electrical issues I would recommend anyone acquiring one of these Laguna machines watch the Laguna assembly video on their YouTube channel. I found the written instructions somewhat lacking and followed the video for much of the process. There are a few gaps and minor discrepancies between the video and written manual and previous experience building "stuff" is going to be very helpful.

It wasn't hard to build but did take many hours. The written instructions suggest you need a forklift or some sort of crane to assemble it but the video shows it can be built done safely without one by building it upside down and then turning it over. There is no way one person could do this step by themselves though. I had two people to help me and that made turning it over a straight forward exercise.

In answer to your 30A/15A question, you cannot install a 30A breaker on a 15A rated circuit. You would need to increase the cable size to 6mm² rather than 2.5mm² in a 15A circuit.
If the manuals intention is to overcome the startup current you can do that by installing a 15A D curve circuit breaker. D curve breakers are especially designed to stay engaged during startup of motors.
The circuit breaker has nothing to do with whatever is plugged into the outlet. The circuit breaker is only there to protect the cable between the breaker and the outlet.

Originally Posted by NCArcher

...you cannot install a 30A breaker on a 15A rated circuit.

Thank you for the feedback. Is this specified in a formal sense somewhere which I could point Carbatec and Laguna towards to help convince them of the need to address this product documentation issue? My own searching identified the AS/NZS 3000:2018, Electrical installations document, known as the Wiring Rules but at $220 to buy it was a bit more than finding the answer to the question was worth at this point

What about a Felder RL160. Haven't looked into them in detail but had heard good things a while back. There's an RL160 for sale second hand through Felder NSW for $5k at the moment. 3 phase motor, so would have to check if it could be terminated to run through a 240v VFD.

Of the available machines, I suppose the Laguna is likely the other best alternative if you want a cyclone and to vent outside (assuming the short cyclone still seperates well enough for that). Definitely go for the 3hp not 1.5hp version though.

Or wait out and hope a Clearvue comes up second hand and jump on it if/when it does.

Cheers, Dom

Originally Posted by DomAU

What about a Felder RL160. Haven't looked into them in detail but had heard good things a while back. There's an RL160 for sale second hand through Felder NSW for $5k at the moment. 3 phase motor, so would have to check if it could be terminated to run through a 240v VFD.

A few years ago I visited a local mens shed with a RL160 running on 3P. As well as running the extractor faster they also wanted to move it to a different part of their shed where they did not have any 3P outlets. A quick look at the motor suggested running from 240V 3P was certainly possible.
As they already was a 15A GPO at the new location it was going to be cheaper to install a 240V VFD than to install a new 3P breaker/22m 3P cable/3P socket at the new location. As far as I know they have not done anything about it.

Also from https://fpartner2009.felder-group.co..._240_1_703.pdf

At the present time the only drawback to the RL160 is that it is not available with a single phase motor. However I do understand that a single phase motor will be available soon. Some customers who do not have utili- ty company provided three phase power nor a phase converter has installed inverters on their RL160’s to convert single phase input to three phase. The inverter also has an added advantage in that the speed of the fan can be controlled, thereby reducing power con- sumption and noise.

i'm genuinely shocked that Clearvue has packed up. As IMO Clearvue was the perfect DC for a serious home workshop, all other options i considered either costed easily 2-3k more than a Clearvue, was physically huge or didn't perform as well as the Clearvue. Suppose the target audience was too much of a niche to sustain a profitable business.

Really do hope someone else takes up the mantle.

The estimated cost for a Clearvue to be retailed in Australia has risen to approximately $6000 and most probably more. The freight alone has risen by over 400% and has shown no evidence that it won't be more. There is nothing stopping anyone picking up the agency as far as I aware so if you feel you can give it a go give Stephen a call and have a chat to him. Those figures were months ago and before CV raised their prices so we are most likely looking at the thick end of $7000 now and that is not what I would call not sellable. It is now cost effective to build here instead of importing and the market is there for someone to have a go.

Really perceptive ananlysis, Chris.

A side effect of the archilles heel of the just in time supply chain and manufacturing processes.

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

i'm genuinely shocked that Clearvue has packed up. As IMO Clearvue was the perfect DC for a serious home workshop, all other options i considered either costed easily 2-3k more than a Clearvue, was physically huge or didn't perform as well as the Clearvue. Suppose the target audience was too much of a niche to sustain a profitable business.

Really do hope someone else takes up the mantle.

Surely Clearview would be the obvious choice to withdraw, given they appeared to provide a comparable product for a much lower cost vs. competitors. Given costs everywhere have risen, they would be the likely company to pull the pin

Originally Posted by Kickback

Surely Clearview would be the obvious choice to withdraw, given they appeared to provide a comparable product for a much lower cost vs. competitors. Given costs everywhere have risen, they would be the likely company to pull the pin

I am most probably the guilty party here as I priced it a a very low retail cost to encourage people to buy cyclones and enjoy good health and woodworking at the same time. Early on I had a company tell me that they should be the retailer and I should just do the importing as I was selling the cyclones too cheaply. Life would have been simpler but that was not my goal at the time.

Originally Posted by Kickback

Surely Clearview would be the obvious choice to withdraw, ...

I googled chinese clearview cyclones and got 38,000 hits!

It is not a hard thing to build a replica CV as the plans are on Pentz's site. Loft the plans onto a sheet of 3mm MDF and then use that to cut out the sheet metal and keep the MDF pattern for when someone asks you to make one for them. I would not bother with soldering and would use fibre glass or glue with something like Sikaflex .