Thread: Expandable Hoses

A little more research turned up the below link ... offering 2in to 6in id expandable hoses.
http://www.flexaust.com/news-and-pr/...orage-space-2/

Now to find an Australian based supplier ....

I have tested the standard flexible ducting such as the translucent material supplied by Carbatec that collapses by about 2.5 times and it definitely reduces the flow compared to the more rigid smooth wall flexy. It's not clear how the Rockler ducting achieves its flexibility but whether it does this by increasing the size of the corrugations or reducing the diameter of the hose (it has to do one or the other) then either will impact the flow. There is some flexible fire resistant air conducting ducting available that expands by 8 times but that does this by stretching corrugations so in its collapsed state it will be too restrictive.

I know quite a few people with small sheds and while it seems more difficult it should be easier to control the dust in such a situation simply because less air needs to be exhausted to clean up the entire shed.

No matter what you do the most critical thing is to be able to vent the DC outside your shed? If this is not done then it is not worth the trouble to modify the 2HP DC and all you can expect to do is have a chip collector.
If you can locate (or at least locate the DC in an air tight enclosure inside but vent the exhaust) outside the shed then it is worth modifying.

If you are really stuck for space I would install the minimum length of 6" ducting from the DC outside to the ceiling or wall somewhere opposite the door (this will create a cross flow) and set it up so you can at least have either
- 3 x 4" ducts feeding to the 6" duct, when operating a machine hook one 4" flexy up to the machine and leave the other two open or partially open (use blast gate.
- 1 x 6" openable port and 1 x 4" ports for your flexy to the machines.

After you finish using each machine open every port up and you will quickly vent the shed.
If you would like help with the design just let me know.

Sound advice as always BobL. I imagine the hose when stretched to max length would lose diameter as you say .... so a 6" hose would probably be 4"/5" in the middle run when expanded.

As for the location of my equipment ... well i wish that it were in a nice small 3x3 shed. The only space available to me for my workarea is a nook in the corner of my 2 car garage.

Any advice on a best case setup/design for my situation would be greatly appreciated BobL. The way i see it, having some sort of dust management system has to be better than none - right.

If you have time, I can draw a floor map and post it up, so that we can discuss best available options.

Originally Posted by WoodenJoys

Sound advice as always BobL. I imagine the hose when stretched to max length would lose diameter as you say .... so a 6" hose would probably be 4"/5" in the middle run when expanded..

yep, even if it is only 5¹/₂" is will still restrict the flow.

As for the location of my equipment ... well i wish that it were in a nice small 3x3 shed. The only space available to me for my workarea is a nook in the corner of my 2 car garage.

Any advice on a best case setup/design for my situation would be greatly appreciated BobL. The way i see it, having some sort of dust management system has to be better than none - right.

If you have time, I can draw a floor map and post it up, so that we can discuss best available options.

Yep go ahead. You didn't say if you could locate the DC outside the shed?

I have used some of the highly flexible 4" from Carba-tec I wouldn't recommend it for ducting your whole workshop but comes in handy for some machines where you might need to open covers or move chip exctractors etc such as on my Planer thicknesser and drum sander.however best use is short lengths only as it eats up the air flow.Does work very nicely with the dust wand kit with a short section on the end.
I was lucky enough to pick up a load of 4" galvanised ducting a couple of years ago and most of my system is made up from that with just short sections of flexible ducting where needed to each machine.

To answer your question BOBL - I am unable to place the DC outside at this point.

I was planning on boxing in the DC, to help reduce noise but to also contain dust particles escaping from the the cartridge filter during operation.
I was thinking of venting/exhausting the DC box through the garage ceiling and up through the tiled roof using flexible vent ducting.

The attached diagram gives a rough guide as to the garage layout (sorry it's not to scale), along with how my tools are currently placed along with the DC which is currently not plumbed at all.

Originally i was going to use a 6" PVC main run out of the DC, and then have a drop with blast gate for each machine. Opening each machine's blast gate as required.
However as mentioned this is a tight space with the workbench being only approx 3m long, so plumbing drops between these machines would make things quite cluttered to a point where it may impact on me being able to make my toys/models.

When i saw the expanding hose, i thought i could better use the space by having a single 6" PVC main run out of the DC box, connecting the expandable hose to this, then as required connect to fittings (to be created) on each machine. This way i have less clutter , and the expanding hose then contracts out of way when not in use or compacts down when connecting to machines closer to the DC.

Open to options at the moment - as i would like to set this up the best way i can the first time. I know it won't be perfect, but was looking to setup a "best case" setup for my situation.

FloorPlan-Layout.jpg

I know it might seem like a step backward but I would be so tempted to redo the benches to have a double top of plywood / MDF with 6" / 150mm space between them and box in the back to make a square pipe the length of the bench going straight into the dust collector as drawn. Then you only have to have trap doors / covers / blast gates to open at each machine and plop a short length of flex to hook up a machine as needed. You get the big pipe for maximum draw without having hoses in the way or pipes above the bench. The front open part of the bench top could be filled with drawers or tool boxes for hand held power tools. There could also be a box section going to the front to allow a flex hose to be plugged in for sucking up the floor in front of the bench. Am I making sense?

Pete

Thanks for the idea Pete - definitely worth consideration as it appears to tick all of the boxes.

I'm not too attached to the bench as it's just made from pine studs/plywood - might even be able to retrofit this solution in without to much rebuilding if i'm lucky.

Something to look into though.

What about running a 6" main up from the DC and the across the top of the wall to the middle of the "work areas", Then use a 6" Y (one end of the Y for venting and the other for a short length of 4" flexy to each machine?

That would possibly work to BobL.

Its a small area with only benchtop tools, so moving a short run of flexy between machines might be the go.

If im reading right both connections would remain open during operation (i.e no blast gates)?

Reading the bill pentz site the cfm through a 4" pipe would be enough for the scrollsaw, drill press and maybe bandsaw .... but would it be enough for the combo sander?

Originally Posted by WoodenJoys

Reading the bill pentz site the cfm through a 4" pipe would be enough for the scrollsaw, drill press and maybe bandsaw .... but would it be enough for the combo sander?

Correct, the 4" duct will at most draw about 400 CFM (not enough), but the modified 2HP DC will not draw more than ~850 CFM through its modified 6" intake.
One way to get a bit more CFM would be to buy a pleated filter on the DC as that will generate about another 10% more flow

Ideally you would use 6" flexy to the machines but this takes up a lot of room on a small bench.
If you leave a permanently open 6" duct up near the roof and use a 4" flexy that will split the available 850 CFM about 3 to 1.
so about 215 CFM through the 4" and nearby the open 6" will pull the other 645 CFM

Its a small area with only benchtop tools, so moving a short run of flexy between machines might be the go.
If im reading right both connections would remain open during operation (i.e no blast gates)?

I would put a blast gate on the otherwise permanently open 6" opening.
That way you could throttle the 6" to direct more suck to the 4", remember the most you can get through the 4" is about 400 CFM so you should never shut the 6" down completely otherwise you won't be removing fine dust as quickly.

you might say why not just use two x 4" openings? well 2 x 4" will never give you NO more than 800 CFM so you immediately lose 50 CFM or 125 CFM if you use a pleated filter.

These numbers are of course all with a clean filter.

Its a significant compromise but will be better than what you have now.

The DC does have a cartridge filter - so guess after I complete the mods I will be able to pull a few more CFM's out of the system (around 900+/-)!

From my initial investigations, I think i should be able to implement BobL's solution.

I should be able to setup a 6" main PVC line from the DC to a single 6" flexy located at the centre of the bench.
The flexy would not need to be longer than 1.2- 1.5m, which i can then attach to 6" individual machine ports/hoods as required during machine operation.

I might still incorporate a Y connector with blast gates off the main PVC line, to allow me to filter ambient room air between machine operations.

Thank you all greatly for the feedback and ideas - you have helped to send me on the right track!