Thread: Fan curve of RL250/300/350 and JKF

Albert, a cyclone will take up way less floor space and no dust filled bags to handle. My intuition without actually pricing it says it will also be cheaper but I may be wrong there.

Originally Posted by Albert

the RL350 has option to do the following

"Power and speed adjustment through pressure measurement"

It seems I can turn down the power/flow when I dont need the full capacity of the 350. a good thing to have I guess as I dont always need 6930m3/hr at 2630pa.

Any three phase motor operating through a VFD will allow the same facility.

Hi Chris

from memory Albert has bought himself a largish drum sander which needs something like the 3 phase Felder 350 to suck the dust away.
I think Albert also has an issue with his power supply and is looking to upgrade to 3 x 105 amp

Originally Posted by ian

Hi Chris

from memory Albert has bought himself a largish drum sander which needs something like the 3 phase Felder 350 to suck the dust away.
I think Albert also has an issue with his power supply and is looking to upgrade to 3 x 105 amp

Hi Ian

Yes you are correct. I have a SCM double belt 1100mm sander that needs about 6300m3/hr at 2300pa at 28m/s. the power issue is now resolved as the line company can upgrade the mains to 100amp. the total cost to have 100amp available on my MSB is about half the cost of a German 20kVA generator.

Hi Chris.
Yes I know. I had a look at the cyclone before but several issues arise from the Clearvue
1. the bin is too small
2. I dont like MDF
3. my main ducting is 250mm.
4. noise, I know this is can be done quite easily but I rather pay someone to give me a guaranteed solution such as Felder. noise is already an issue when I put a 360mm wide Kwila through the planer...
5. venting outside is a huge issue, I dont want saw dust in my neighbourhood at all, yes they are very fine, but saw dust is acidic, as soon as it rest on some metal surface, mixed with moisture.... you have rust! so it will be matter of time before someone finds out and council slap me with a fix it or you are in court scenario. and I dont want to vent inside.

Originally Posted by Albert

Yes I know. I had a look at the cyclone before but several issues arise from the Clearvue

I don't think Chris is referring to a Clearvue, their biggest is 1800 CFM and the smallest you are looking at is 2100 CFM

venting outside is a huge issue, I dont want saw dust in my neighbourhood at all, yes they are very fine, but saw dust is acidic, as soon as it rest on some metal surface, mixed with moisture.... you have rust! so it will be matter of time before someone finds out and council slap me with a fix it or you are in court scenario. and I dont want to vent inside.

Sawdust is acidic from e.g. https://archive.org/stream/useofsawd...1alli_djvu.txt

cypress is the most acid (pH 3.5 to 3.9) ; sawdusts from yellow pine, spruce, white
oak, black oak, and redwood are less acid (pH 4.1 to 5.0) ; those
from blue beech, larch, red oak, white birch, sugar pine, maple, pin
oak, Japanese larch, and red pine are only mildly acid (pH 5.1 to 6.0) ;
and those from locust, elm, and hemlock are nearly neutral (pH 6.1 to 7.0).

What few people realise if that exposed rainwater/moisture is also acidic since it absorbs CO2 and makes carbonic acid and this is a major contributor to exposed metal rusting.
When I tested exposed water it was in the pH range of 4 - 5.
I couldn't find anything on the pH of southern hemisphere tree sawdust but sometime I must measure our local variety

The degree of rusting from sawdust depends on what else is in the sawdust. Trees with high tannin content don't cause rust but convert rust to Ferrous Tannate which is good because it substantially slows down rusting.

The amount of dust settling out of the air outside has to be looked at in comparison to what is already present in the air. Normal air already contains a large amount of dust including wood dust.
The fine dust takes hours to settle so even a half kph breeze will have scattered that into a very large volume. I agree that given the amount of dust you intend to generate that you probably don't want to risk a still day and then an argument with the council.

My concern is that the overall scale of the process looks like it should be conducted in an industrial zoned area. No matter what you do and even if everything you do meets OHS it only takes one nasty neighbour to complain and I'd say a council inspection would rule that because of the nature of the work you will need to move the gear out of a suburban environment.

at this stage -- working 2 hours per day and maybe 4 hours at weekends -- Albert can still claim that he is just a very well set-up (and funded!) hobbyist.
If his operation became what looked like a "day job" it'd be a different matter.

I'm sure that many on here aspire to equipment like Albert's.
I know I do and can name more than one Forumite who has an industrial scale bandsaw or helical head jointer / thicknesser or both.
Though I'll agree that Euro panel saws are less common.

Originally Posted by ian

at this stage -- working 2 hours per day and maybe 4 hours at weekends -- Albert can still claim that he is just a very well set-up (and funded!) hobbyist.
If his operation became what looked like a "day job" it'd be a different matter.

I'm sure that many on here aspire to equipment like Albert's.
I know I do and can name more than one Forumite who has an industrial scale bandsaw or helical head jointer / thicknesser or both.
Though I'll agree that Euro panel saws are less common.

Thanks Ian, I can confirm I can happily live without my woodwork income, I am really a hobbyist who loves quality machine.

If its a day job my workshop would be too small. I have looked several times to buy an industrial unit but always retreated back to my garage.

One of my client who is in the international trade business asked recently if I am interested to export to China. I never thought about this but if I do, I will have to move.

Originally Posted by BobL

I don't think Chris is referring to a Clearvue, their biggest is 1800 CFM and the smallest you are looking at is 2100 CFM



Sawdust is acidic from e.g. https://archive.org/stream/useofsawd...1alli_djvu.txt

What few people realise if that exposed rainwater/moisture is also acidic since it absorbs CO2 and makes carbonic acid and this is a major contributor to exposed metal rusting.
When I tested exposed water it was in the pH range of 4 - 5.
I couldn't find anything on the pH of southern hemisphere tree sawdust but sometime I must measure our local variety

The degree of rusting from sawdust depends on what else is in the sawdust. Trees with high tannin content don't cause rust but convert rust to Ferrous Tannate which is good because it substantially slows down rusting.

The amount of dust settling out of the air outside has to be looked at in comparison to what is already present in the air. Normal air already contains a large amount of dust including wood dust.
The fine dust takes hours to settle so even a half kph breeze will have scattered that into a very large volume. I agree that given the amount of dust you intend to generate that you probably don't want to risk a still day and then an argument with the council.

My concern is that the overall scale of the process looks like it should be conducted in an industrial zoned area. No matter what you do and even if everything you do meets OHS it only takes one nasty neighbour to complain and I'd say a council inspection would rule that because of the nature of the work you will need to move the gear out of a suburban environment.

Appreciated, Bob.

I have checked with local authority about my operation, home business is allowed as long as I am not emitting pollutant such as dust and the noise level has to be kept within certain limit, I had a acoustic engineer to come in and did several acoustic test, luckily I am under the threshold with ONE AND ONLY exception - when I run wide(300mm+) hardwood through the planer. I do hardwood about once a month, each time for duration of 10 minutes.

Although most of my operation is within noise level permitted, I dont use my machines after 7pm at all. its mostly cleaning and glueing after 7pm.

Originally Posted by Albert

Thanks Ian, I can confirm I can happily live without my woodwork income, I am really a hobbyist who loves quality machine.

If its a day job my workshop would be too small.

if you ever get grief from the neighbours or council, you can always say you are a "small scale" hobbyist compared to Kent Adkins, a surgeon in the US
see https://youtu.be/7gc8HYBYo0E



(wish I knew how to embed the video)

Originally Posted by ian

if you ever get grief from the neighbours or council, you can always say you are a "small scale" hobbyist compared to Kent Adkins, a surgeon in the US
see https://youtu.be/7gc8HYBYo0E


(wish I knew how to embed the video)

Nice machines he has there and very clean. I wonder what kind of dusty he has.

I will make a video of my shop when my new dust extractor arrives from Europe, it will take about 4 months after a decision has been made. most likely to be a Felder....

my guess is a full scale industrial spec jobbie.

Originally Posted by Albert

Nice machines he has there and very clean. I wonder what kind of dusty he has. .

I agree this is a lovely looking shop (I'm a sucker for weatherboard buildings) and it looks like some sort of large scale system is in place but there are still far too many single 4" ducts in use on machines for my liking. I mo longer believe what photos / videos show in terms of shed cleanliness that contain machinery. When I did my 20 or so shed visits around Perth to assess dust levels I specifically asked shed owners not to clean up or empty their DCs but some could not resist cleaning up and some of these sheds were immaculate! These sheds contained relatively little visible dust on surfaces and even in the shed air. However, within minutes of turning on their DCs the levels of dust in shed air were above OHS levels. All except two of these sheds had their DCs inside sheds.