Thread: Interesting old fan / dust collector for cheap

isn't the general consensus that you want bigger then a 300mm (12") impellor to get a decent amount of flow?

Before you buy any VFD maybe go to the Electronics Forum and read the two stickies at the top of that forum on VFDs.

Also you may wish to check out this Vid
Variable Speed Drives - YouTube

Quick tip:
Do not buy any VFD unless you can view and have some understanding of the manual FIRST
I know this is a chicken and egg situation but some folks are buying cheap VFDs and end up finding the manual is brief gibberish

Originally Posted by havabeer69

isn't the general consensus that you want bigger then a 300mm (12") impellor to get a decent amount of flow?

He will use a VFD. Higher RPM compensates the smaller impeller diameter.

Originally Posted by BobL

Do not buy any VFD unless you can view and have some understanding of the manual FIRST
I know this is a chicken and egg situation but some folks are buying cheap VFDs and end up finding the manual is brief gibberish

Gregg's link includes a link to the manual.

The motor as it sits is a Y or star wound motor. You would need to take it apart and pick out the connections and reconnect it as a delta wound motor to run at 220V. Bob has written about it before but a motor shop or an industrial electrician should be able to do it if you aren't comfortable playing with the electrical guts.

Pete

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

The motor as it sits is a Y or star wound motor. You would need to take it apart and pick out the connections and reconnect it as a delta wound motor to run at 220V. Bob has written about it before but a motor shop or an industrial electrician should be able to do it if you aren't comfortable playing with the electrical guts.

Pete

The way I read the motor name plate is it convertible in the motor junction box.
That's 380-420 as star (Y) and 220-240 as Delta (D) @50Hz
Screen Shot 2021-05-25 at 5.11.50 am.png
Slighty unusual V rating though for the 60Hz setting.
We used to regularly see 250V here in WA but less so in the last few years.

That impeller design profile looks similar to one our mens shed extracted (ha!) from a demolished 60 year old high school wood workshop .
some detail pics here OLD School DC issues

Being radial is was bloody loud and not that grunty

At 50Hz SP was 7.2 " of WC with a db reading of 97 dB at 1m.
At 60Hz SP was 9.6" with a reading of 102 dB

We gave the to another mens shed and bought a Clearvue

One thing to watch out for is old DC filters tend to be riddled with holes so external location is essential.

Your right Bob. I was looking for the triangle to indicate delta wound. I sit corrected.

Pete

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Your right Bob. I was looking for the triangle to indicate delta wound. I sit corrected.

Pete

I guess it depends on what font set they have available at the time.

Apart from the higher rpms possible, I was hopeful about the potential output of this fan when I saw the big inlet, outlet and the blade size and small axial clearances. The blade area is 13387mm^2 vs 8037mm^2 for the old 2HP Holytek. That's a honking 66% more. Trying to get a quick idea on relative performance of the different blade types, I saw these graphs in an Energy Engineering paper and Science Direct paper..(didn't save the links but I could find them if someone needs)
305mm fans, 2850 vs 3870rpm.jpgblade type rel performance ex energy eng.jpghead vs flow for blade types ex science direct.gif

Bob, with these bigger blades it may be even noisier than the one you are refering to. I will go follow your link.
Re the old filters. Are you recollecting that I scrounged up a couple of used cannisters cheap? I can't assess their condition or know their particle size rating, but they could be useful developing a configuration, replaced with new once all is sorted. Or yes, placed outside so the neighbours are impressed and don't just see an exhaust tube.

I'm looking up ideas about VFD and started watching the video.

EDIT...I corrected the drawing, inlet size and the housing spiral. The spiral may still not be perfectly true so the point of minimum blade tip clearance may not be in the correct place. Please ignore the attached thumbnails below. Don't know how to delete them.

EDIT...In the original post i stated, in error, that the increased blade area was 20%. I checked carefully and it is 66%

Correction to my post above...rpm not rpms...who is that clown..!

Originally Posted by BobL

The way I read the motor name plate is it convertible in the motor junction box.
That's 380-420 as star (Y) and 220-240 as Delta (D) @50Hz....

I've been reading a little about VFDs and I'm part way through your VFDs in the Shed walkabout. I saw my Hercus lathe in there...
One thing I'm slightly confused about. For VFDs with 220V 3PH output people convert motors from 380V (Y) to 220V (D). But I can get a VFD with a 380V 3PH output and use the motor in (Y) mode. Is there any pro/con to running a motor in (Y) vs (D) mode, or to using a VDF with 3PH output of 220V vs 380V?
I took a photo of my junction box, but I think you already have a mental picture of it.
IMG_20210526_140336_5.jpg

Originally Posted by BobL

That impeller design profile looks similar to one our mens shed extracted (ha!)...pics here OLD School DC issues....
Being radial is was bloody loud and not that grunty...
At 50Hz SP was 7.2 " of WC with a db reading of 97B at 1m....
At 60Hz SP was 9.6" with a reading of 102 dB ...

I enjoyed reading that. I can't tell how similar my impeller/housing is to that one. I'm curious to see what output mine has. I assume it will be noisy. I could put it near the neighbor that I don't really like....
As soon as I'm not so broke I'm going to get a VFD and a hot wire anemometer.

Originally Posted by BobL

One thing to watch out for is old DC filters tend to be riddled with holes so external location is essential.

I get it now, you're referring to the felt sausage bags. They look a bit dirty but are not so old and are quite thick. You're right though, they may be full of holes.

Gregg.

Originally Posted by GreggMacPherson

I've been reading a little about VFDs and I'm part way through your VFDs in the Shed walkabout. I saw my Hercus lathe in there...
One thing I'm slightly confused about. For VFDs with 220V 3PH output people convert motors from 380V (Y) to 220V (D). But I can get a VFD with a 380V 3PH output and use the motor in (Y) mode. Is there any pro/con to running a motor in (Y) vs (D) mode, or to using a VDF with 3PH output of 220V vs 380V?
I took a photo of my junction box, but I think you already have a mental picture of it.

Are you talking about the Ecogo VFD? If so I wouldn't recommend one of those - you can't set a current limit on them and so you would be risking problems running above 50Hz. This is what I mean about getting hold of the manual and making sure it can do what you want it to do.

I get it now, you're referring to the felt sausage bags. They look a bit dirty but are not so old and are quite thick. You're right though, they may be full of holes.

There are a couple of ways to check it.
Take it outside late in the arvo on a sunny day with low angle sunlight shining on teh bag and chuck a bucket of sawdust in the collection bags and fire it up. You will easily see the holes in it.
The other way is to put a bright light inside the bag and you should see twinkles where the leaks are.
Not recommend is to put you head into the bag and look at a bright light

If there are only a few small leaks these can be fixed with a dab of silicone.

Originally Posted by BobL

Are you talking about the Ecogo VFD? If so I wouldn't recommend one of those - you can't set a current limit on them and so you would be risking problems running above 50Hz. This is what I mean about getting hold of the manual and making sure it can do what you want it to do....

I was looking at this example...a Weiken WK310 series.
VFD 4KW 220V יחיד קלט 380 415V פלט 3 שלבי תדר מהפך משלוח חינם|Inverters & Converters| - AliExpress

I found a manual for that series...but I couldn't easily tell what was applicable to the model I was looking at.
http://www.cnweiken.cn/wk310.pdf

I need to read more. Ill see if I can find someone here who knows a bit about VFDs.

Gregg.

Manual wouldn't download for me.

Given your motor is able to run on 240V 3P I would get a more well known 240V 3P VFD - that way you are more likely to find someone that know something about the VFD and can help you out if you run into probs.
Huanyangs are well known on this site and they have a decent manual. The other notch above and very reliable brand are Powtrans - unfortunately not on ebay and no web shop but you can get them direct from the factory. Just ask how if interested.

I gets lots of calls and emails from people
"I bought this cheap VFD on the net and . . . . . . can you help?"
If its a VFD I don't know about my eyes quickly glaze over at this point and I usually say, "sorry can't help', as it's too much effort to learn to interpret yet another manual.

Once you've learned to set up half a dozen different VFDs, its like learning another language, it does get easier - but it depends on the quality of the manual.

The price of a 3Kw Huanyang VFD on AliExpress looked OK.
220v 3.0kw VFD Drive מהפך/VFD 1HP או 3HP קלט 3HP פלט CNC נהג CNC ציר מנוע בקרת מהירות|inverter importer|production stripinverter model - AliExpress