Thread: Felder AF14 or 16

I have not used one but these appear to be well made machines , not that there is much to go wrong with DCs.
Just be aware that the claimed 3000 m^3 per hour will be for the impeller alone measured by a flawed Australian standard measuring technique. All manufacturers do it this way without saying anything about it.
The claimed static pressure is 2150 Pa or 8.5" of Water volume which is nothing startling and fairly standard for a small 2-3HP DC.
This machine at most can move 2000 m^3 per hour through a short length of 150mm ducting with no filter/bags, fittings or machinery attached. Once these are attached expect similar performance to most other a single bag DC.
The single bag means will be more restrictive than a double bag.
If you have the space I would really recommend a double bag system.

The only problem and this applies to most extractors is the bags, they have to be handled and emptied which in itself is a dusty process. An extractor that uses drums takes a way a great deal of the second exposure to dust that emptying the bags exposes the user too. Emptying a drum can just about be a dust free process done the right way or at least far less dusty than any bag.

Thanks for the comments guys. BobL, having spent a little time reading this forum, I think a university needs to give you an honorary doctorate in the field of dust control!

Do you think the specs of this unit stack up? It is a compelling price. Seems to have the same design as many other Powermatic/Leda/Jet/Woodman etc etc. I always wonder if they do indeed roll out of the same factory with just a different set of stickers on!

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/b...dust-extractor

Originally Posted by DeeSki

Thanks for the comments guys. BobL, having spent a little time reading this forum, I think a university needs to give you an honorary doctorate in the field of dust control!

I sort of already have one. I did my doctorate in the early 80's and part of that involved renovating a clean room.

Do you think the specs of this unit stack up? It is a compelling price. Seems to have the same design as many other Powermatic/Leda/Jet/Woodman etc etc. I always wonder if they do indeed roll out of the same factory with just a different set of stickers on
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/b...dust-extractor

Given its static pressure I'd say its about the same as most other DCs. The only thing it has going for it over most other small DCs is the 160mm inlet being already built into the impeller, but that is not a lot of work to make and fit to any small DC.

Excellent, thanks for that.

I was looking at the cheapie form Sydney tools. Where I have landed is to find a second-hand 2 or 3hp DC , take the motor/impeller unit off, mount on the wall and vend outside (after separating big chips in a drum, hopefully with a cyclone attached). Seems to be the best way to take care of the small particles without sending crazy money on a unit.

Thanks for your contribution to this BobL and your wider contribution on the forum, it is much appreciated.

Originally Posted by DeeSki

Excellent, thanks for that.

I was looking at the cheapie form Sydney tools. Where I have landed is to find a second-hand 2 or 3hp DC , take the motor/impeller unit off, mount on the wall and vend outside (after separating big chips in a drum, hopefully with a cyclone attached). Seems to be the best way to take care of the small particles without sending crazy money on a unit.

Unless you were using a Clearvue cyclone/impeller or live some distance from your neighbors I would not recommend this. Otherwise you will still need filters. Also if you are not aware third party cyclones on small DCs rob significant suck meaning less fine dust is captured @ source. You will get more flow and hence collect more fine dust using a twin filter unit than a 3rd party cyclone.

Thanks foTell mum Tricia has already sent condolences.r your contribution to this BobL and your wider contribution on the forum, it is much appreciated.

no worries.

All of the above is extremely useful - thank you again.

I think this is where I have landed - I found thins one https://www.timbecon.com.au/extracti...dust-extractor. The specs look impressive if the 2900 CFM figure is legitimate - it is also about $600 cheaper than the Felder AF 16. I will run an 8" duct through the wall into a small shed that will hold the unit. I can reduce the 8inch to 5 inch that can then attach to the machines.

Does anybody rate the Dust Deputy Super? It has a 6inch port, not sure if I even need this if everything is outside.

The 2900 CFM is a complete furphy as are static pressure claims on that DC.
Its a variant on the usual standard DC that will pull no more than ~1250 CFM through a short length of 6" ducting and its downhill form there.
Once you add longer lengths of ducts, junctions, blast gates and machines you will be under 1000 CFM

Originally Posted by DeeSki

Does anybody rate the Dust Deputy Super? It has a 6inch port, not sure if I even need this if everything is outside.

The main reason to use something like that is that it will reduce the numbers of times you have to clean the DC filters.
BUT
Again - there's no free lunch.
Using a cyclone like that imposes a restriction to flow so it is highly unlikely it will collect as much fine dust at source as otherwise would be possible.
To maximize fine dust collection at source it is important to maximise the flow and that will be without the cyclone.
This is why Bill Pent'z cyclone uses a matched cyclone and 15/16" impellers and 4HP+ motors to overcome this resistance

Unless you will be actually making dust with 2 machines at the same time then I would not bother with a larger duct going to a smaller duct.
There is not readily available reasonably priced 8" PVC pipe available - you could go with galv but I sense you are in budget mode (otherwise you'd be considering a ClearVue).
Likewise with 5" pipe - there's no such beast in budget level PVC and besides its far better to use 6".
The aim should be to generate 1000 CFM at the dust source - you may not quite get there with 6" ducting but the max 5" can draw at convention al DC pressures is about 780 CFM.

Because there is no 8" budget level PVC you have to go to 9" (its actually 240 mm) and that will be too large for that machine leading to sawdust coming out of suspension. Even galv 8" will be suspect to this.

Geez - this is hard! Good point re ducting price as well. I am only running a approx 4m line and a 12 m line - but it all ads up.

The Clearvue is fine price wise except for the 3 phase motor, the brief searching tell me that a VFD big enough will be very expensive. I might look at purchasing the parts and attaching a 4hp 20 amp motor on top. I suppose I am more concerned about spending the $3k when I can find the same solution for $1.5-$2k with a bit of problem solving.

I am sure you have better things to do then act as my private dust collection consultant!

Originally Posted by DeeSki

Geez - this is hard! Good point re ducting price as well. I am only running a approx 4m line and a 12 m line - but it all ads up.
The Clearvue is fine price wise except for the 3 phase motor, the brief searching tell me that a VFD big enough will be very expensive.

The Clearvue uses a 4HP motor so 4HP VFD is needed.
Clearvue recommend and sell the Powtran (I think its a PI9130) VFD for around $450 of course that comes with a warranty and support. The same VFD can be bought direct from the Factory in China for around half that price.

I might look at purchasing the parts and attaching a 4hp 20 amp motor on top.

If you are talking about using single phase motor this would be a waste of money.
The normal motor speed is not going to change (2880 rpm) so its not going to improve the static pressure. It would improve the fan curve a little ie lose less speed under vacuum but that alone is unlikely to be worth the effort.

Installing a 4HP and a VFD would enable you to spin the impeller faster but you won't get ClearVue performance as the impeller is too small and also won't be as well engineered.

I suppose I am more concerned about spending the $3k when I can find the same solution for $1.5-$2k with a bit of problem solving.

Once again if you are hoping to cobble A, B and C and get a cheap ClearVue this way - well sorry, it's going to happen.
The Clearvue is a latest design cyclone/impeller well matched to each other and the motor - its a completely thought through solution.

I am sure you have better things to do then act as my private dust collection consultant!

Sure, but I also don't like seeing folk wandering up the wrong garden path.

Thanks again mate. I appreciate the comments. It has given me a lot (too bloody much!) to think about.

Originally Posted by BobL

I have not used one but these appear to be well made machines , not that there is much to go wrong with DCs.
Just be aware that the claimed 3000 m^3 per hour will be for the impeller alone measured by a flawed Australian standard measuring technique. All manufacturers do it this way without saying anything about it.
The claimed static pressure is 2150 Pa or 8.5" of Water volume which is nothing startling and fairly standard for a small 2-3HP DC.
This machine at most can move 2000 m^3 per hour through a short length of 150mm ducting with no filter/bags, fittings or machinery attached. Once these are attached expect similar performance to most other a single bag DC.
The single bag means will be more restrictive than a double bag.
If you have the space I would really recommend a double bag system.

Sorry to kick this old topic alive.
I was about to purchase the AF16, my mouse was already hovering the "pay" button when i figured to check some stuff one more time. Then I found this.
I'm wondering what you meant with double bag system. I"m guessing you mean double filter bag system and not double dust bag system right?
If not it might actually push me to get the AF22 instead of the AF16. I however would get the 230v system instead of 3x400v since I currently don't have 3x400v available to me.

A thanks and appreciation to Bob for his always helpful contributions.
I always learn a bit more even if I didn't ask the question.
About you saying there is "no free lunch";
if you come to Victoria I would like to prove you wrong on that.
But then I might have some competition on that front.

Originally Posted by mher

Sorry to kick this old topic alive.
I was about to purchase the AF16, my mouse was already hovering the "pay" button when i figured to check some stuff one more time. Then I found this.
I'm wondering what you meant with double bag system. I"m guessing you mean double filter bag system and not double dust bag system right?
If not it might actually push me to get the AF22 instead of the AF16. I however would get the 230v system instead of 3x400v since I currently don't have 3x400v available to me.

My suggestion would be to ask Felder if they can supply the 230V 3 phase version that goes to the US and run it through a VFD or it maybe that the 3 phase motor is dual voltage anyway. Doing that will allow control over the motor speed and soft starting as well.