Thread: Wall mounted dust collector vs small dust extractor

Hi Jekkil,

I find the barrel-type machines extremely noisy. I strongly recommend you ask to hear one working before you buy.

Regards,

Brian

Hey Brian,

Thanks for answering. They switched it on for me and it didn't seem to be louder than the table saw...

Neither of those DCs will cope with even the visible sawdust dust from a table saw or thicknesser, let alone the invisible dust.
Remember for a TS you need 2 collection points cabinet and OH guard.
Even a stock 2HP DC will struggle and they need to be modified to grab more fine dust - See sticky at top of the dust forum on how to do this.

Can you locate the DC outside and duct back into your shed?

If you do end up with either of the two in your OP then you will need some forced ventilation to cope with the fine dust.

Originally Posted by BobL

Neither of those DCs will cope with even the visible sawdust dust from a table saw or thicknesser, let alone the invisible dust.
Remember for a TS you need 2 collection points cabinet and OH guard.
Even a stock 2HP DC will struggle and they need to be modified to grab more fine dust - See sticky at top of the dust forum on how to do this.

Can you locate the DC outside and duct back into your shed?

If you do end up with either of the two in your OP then you will need some forced ventilation to cope with the fine dust.

No, i can't locate the DC outside. There is no space.
I usually work with the garage door open and a fan towards the end of the garage that blows air outside.

I know that I won't solve completely the problem with dust. I'm only trying to get the most efficient solution given my garage.
At the moment I have nothing, so anything will be better than nothing. I have not enough space for a big unit. I can only afford a very small unit. Again...still better than nothing...but which one is preferable?

Originally Posted by Jekkil

No, i can't locate the DC outside. There is no space.
I usually work with the garage door open and a fan towards the end of the garage that blows air outside.

That will be like hearding cats - just like the air the invisible dust will move a couple of meters and then cycle back on itself and won't be removed

I know that I won't solve completely the problem with dust. I'm only trying to get the most efficient solution given my garage.
At the moment I have nothing, so anything will be better than nothing. I have not enough space for a big unit. I can only afford a very small unit. Again...still better than nothing...but which one is preferable?

Sure i can appreciate this - have been in similar circumstances.

To ventilate fine dust efficiently the fan needs to be constrained ie in a wall or door or window and an inlet such as another window/door/or opening needs to be on the opposite wall so that a cross flow can be established. If this is not possible there will always have dust so maybe invest in a good mask?

Originally Posted by BobL

To ventilate fine dust efficiently the fan needs to be constrained ie in a wall or door or window and an inlet such as another window/door/or opening needs to be on the opposite wall so that a cross flow can be established. If this is not possible there will always have dust so maybe invest in a good mask?

Definitely a mask is something that I wear at any time.

I'm starting to think that the intent of my post was received wrongly.
I didn't intend to find the final solution to my dust collection issue. I know that eliminating dust from a workshop, especially fine dust, is virtually impossible and will require a big investment in terms of money and space.
My intent was to find a solution that would help me with minimizing the cleaning of the workshop.
Fine dust will always be present and I'll fight it with other means (masks, fans and/or air filters) but to minimize the cleaning, which type of unit will do a better job? which one would you recommend for a thicknesser and a table saw?
That was the original intent of my question

The compact dust extractor (vacuum cleaner on steroids ) wouldn't be a good choice IMO. The filter would clog up in no time and is not easy to clean to restore suction. At least the wall mounted unit has a pleated cartridge with a paddle cleaner. It would be pretty gutless though so keeping the connection to the machine in use to a minimum would be paramount, rather difficult with the table saw. Are you sure you can't fit the 2hp DE in? It would leave either of those other choices for dead even with a needle felt bag. If you ever upgrade I suspect there would be many more potential buyers for a 2hp DE.

I'm resuming this thread as I finally had time to dedicate to this topic in my workshop.
I came to the conclusion that unfortunately I don't have enough space in my single garage to have a 2HP DC and I will have to go with one of the small 1HP units. I like to think that it is better than nothing. Probably I won't solve the issue of the fine dust but it will help me with the cleaning.
Now, these are my options:
OPTION 1: Wall mounted 1HP DC from Carbatec: Carbatec 1HP Wall Mount Dust Collector with Cartridge Filter | Carbatec
OPTION 2: Classic 1HP DC from Carbatec + pleated filter: Carbatec Portable Dust Collector - 1 HP | Carbatec + Carbatec Pleated Filter Cartridge to suit DC-500H and FM-230 | Carbatec
OPTION 3: Wall mounted 1HP DC from Timbecon: https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...dust-collector
OPTION 4: Classic 1HP DC from Timbecon + pleated filter: https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-1hp-dust-extractor

The plan is to hook whatever will be the final choice to the tools using a flexible hose not longer than 2meters.

The questions I have are the following:
1. The Timbecon units are rated 600CFM/650CFM while the Carbatec units are rated 500CFM. They look to me exactly the same and one guy at Carbatec told me that "whoever advertises these unit at more than 500CFM is lying" (clearly referring to the guys at Timbecon. Do you think there is difference between them or should I consider them all with the same performance?
2. Do you think there is a difference between OPTION 1/OPTION 3 (where the dust pass through the filter before going into the collection bag) and OPTION 2/OPTION 4 (where the dust goes directly into the bag and I'm assuming that the filte will catch only the finest dust)? Is it just a matter of preference of design or is there any difference in performance?

Thanks to anyone who will be able to shed some lights on these doubts of mine.

Cheers
Nick

The floor standing units will generate about 350 CFM while the wall sanding units (even with a pleated filter) will generate less that this.
If you want more flow and longer time between filter cleanings from the floor standing units you could get a pleated filter for that one - pleated filter gives about 10% more flow and significantly longer time between filter cleaning.
If you wanted to get the floor standing type off teh floors it would not be difficult to turn the stand into a wall bracket

None of these are going to come close at dealing with fine dust extraction from machinery. Could you at least put a couple of bathroom type extractor fans in the workshop wall?

Originally Posted by BobL

The floor standing units will generate about 350 CFM while the wall sanding units (even with a pleated filter) will generate less that this.

Just for my understanding, why will the wall mounted units generate less?
Also, are you saying that both the Carbatec and the Timbecon unit will generate the same flow, no matter what their website says?

Originally Posted by BobL

If you want more flow and longer time between filter cleanings from the floor standing units you could get a pleated filter for that one - pleated filter gives about 10% more flow and significantly longer time between filter cleaning.

Yes, that' the idea. If I go with the floor standing unit, there is no way I am going to use it with the filter bag. The pleated filter will be a must.

Originally Posted by BobL

None of these are going to come close at dealing with fine dust extraction from machinery. Could you at least put a couple of bathroom type extractor fans in the workshop wall?

Well...I could..but they will vent inside the house...not a smart move I gess I have a single car garage and the only usable opening is the door.

Jokes apart, I usually try to use the tools that generate the most dust as close as possible to the garage door or outside, if possible. I put a fan behind me and I'm planning to get a bigger fan with filter close to the tool I'm using.
And of course I wear a mask from the moment I put foot into the garage until I finish.

I have the small Sherwood unit that is shown in the OP. It works fine with my thicknesser and router table (and I have it running through a 4 inch cyclone arrangement on a 44 gallon drum). The trick is to keep your hose lengths as short as possible - its performance does fall away quite noticeably if you add longer hose length. I have yet to put the bottom plate with 4 inch outlet on my table saw and try connecting the extractor up to that.

It is certainly much better than my old system, which consisted of a "shed vac" with a 2 inch cyclone system on a smaller drum - now THAT was noisy.

My shed normally houses two cars, which are moved outside when I am working in there. The shed is open on one side. I have two large industrial fans (one of which is louder than the dust extractor) and two smaller pedestal fans mounted at various points in the shed. Depending on what area of the shed I am working in / what equipment I am using, different fans will be turned on to clear the air of fine dust. When working with timber that generates a lot of fine dust (such as local ginger or jarrah), I wear a decent quality cartridge mask as required. It is a pretty basic large tin shed - neither insulated nor air conditioned. So, it is often the weather that dictates when I work in there and to some extent, what work I will do. When it is 40 degrees here (normal temp in summer) it is at least 45 in the shed - time to sit under the back verandah with a beer.

Originally Posted by Jekkil

Just for my understanding, why will the wall mounted units generate less?

What's rate limiting the flow on these units is
1) pressure delivered by the fan /motors (same)
2) the 4" inlet to the impeller (same)
3) area of the filters.

A pleated filter nominally provides more flow for the same size filter, but given the wall mounted unit's filter is <half the area of the floor mounted one then flow will be less.

Also, are you saying that both the Carbatec and the Timbecon unit will generate the same flow, no matter what their website says?

Pretty much.

Jekkil I have an unconventional option for using a 2hp DC in your garage. Hang it from the ceiling.

Pull the castors off the base and lag bolt it into the ceiling with some rubber to absorb the vibration and sound.

Take the bag ring off and reattach it in the proper orientation. Cartridge up and bag down.

With the DC mounted above you the motor and impeller are for the most part out of the way and you only have the waste bag to bump into. The space under it is still useable, you just have to get up a little to change it and maybe have the bottom sit on a little table or cabinet.

Floorspace is always at premium but most every shop I have ever seen had some unused wall space.

Pete

As Bob and aldav have been politely suggesting, Jekkil, I also think that you will be wasting your money with a ! HP vacuum.

To put it in perspective, in the house we have a Miele Cat & Dog vacuum which has a 2000 watt motor. It works fine on the carpets.

By definition, a 1 HP vacuum has a 750 watt motor - about one third of what we use in the house. Add to that the loss of power from friction in the ducting - it just does not suck hard enough.

With your space and budget limitations, you will not be able to deal with fine dust nor get good capture at the machines. Perhaps we should restrict the debate to "workshop house keeping" - perhaps a shop vac plus a cyclone to reduce the workload of the filters.