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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewoodbasher View Post
    It will be documented and tested on video for all to see!
    And there we have the entire purpose of this thread - not asking for advice, but pushing YouTube views and making money.

    This is spam, exactly the same as someone telling you to buy his new widget because it’s the best ever.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin62 View Post
    And there we have the entire purpose of this thread - not asking for advice, but pushing YouTube views and making money.

    This is spam, exactly the same as someone telling you to buy his new widget because it’s the best ever.
    Dude did you even read the First post? there are three questions right there asking for advice! I have taken note that Youtube links are Frowned uppon here so I will be more carefull in the future with that! But Ill say it again, I'm doing this because I like making stuff, working with wood and tinkering. But most of all I enjoy sharing what I do!
    I have not made any Claims to this being the "best ever" only a very simple and crude mock up to see if my Cyclone would work with my bucket.

    I feel like I'm being shot down here for something that has yet to even fully develop, I have some great ideas that could really make this work! Come on guys!

  4. #18
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    First things first, have you read any of the sickys in this dust extraction part of the forum? If you are here to learn, please read through all of the stickys. You will then start to see why what you are proposing to do with a leaf blower is not going to get you the result you are aiming for. Research in this part of the forum is a must. It is really important that you understand that creating YouTube videos about dust extraction needs to be lead through understanding the science behind dust extraction, not just due to your “experience “. Are you aware of what timber dust (the fine, invisible stuff) does to a persons lungs over a period of exposure without adequate dust extraction? Do you understand what is adequate? Do you comprehend the ramifications for creating a “dust extractor” without measuring equipment and scientific research then sending it out there for all to watch and catch some people believing that what you say is true?
    This is not an area of woodwork to take on lightly, it is really important that dust extraction is done properly and not created adhoc. I have watched videos online of someone creating theirs the right way, only to see the comments of people who have no clue and bag the guy for using large ducting and opening up machine ports etc.
    Do it right or don’t do it at all, go and find something else to video and leave this stuff to those that want the correct information to get out to the masses. Peoples lives depend on it, seriously!

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewoodbasher View Post
    Dude did you even read the First post? there are three questions right there asking for advice!
    I did. That was the one advertising your YouTube video wasn’t it?

    Your three questions were more than offset by your next three posts ignoring the advice given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thewoodbasher View Post
    I feel like I'm being shot down here for something that has yet to even fully develop, I have some great ideas that could really make this work! Come on guys!
    What was shot down was your idea. It’s a bad one. People who have spent a life time studying and researching this field have given you well written, polite and cogent explanations of exactly why. But you’re going ahead anyway (no one objects to you trying stuff - it’s mostly the misinforming others by means of YouTube that we object to).

    Feel free to experiment and if you make a discovery or find a new way of doing this that works, then by all means come and tell us. But you are first and foremost making a YouTube video. Dust extraction is secondary to both the publicity and the experiment itself. Get your priorities right and you’ll get a lot more sympathy.

    Show us these “great ideas”. Excuse us if we don’t all quiver with anticipation - I know I’m not expecting much, but hey, one never knows.

  6. #20
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    Bash here is a link to Bill Pentz's dust collection site. He researched dust probably before you were very far in your career if at all and he has pretty much everything covered including a spreadsheet for calculating system losses and another on making a cyclone to fit a duct collector. His cyclone is the one Clear Vue sell and others copy. The only downside is that it is a long, detailed read that takes a while to take in. It is the kind of research you would benefit greatly from. With it you'll be able to answer many of your questions so that when you do make something to collect dust you do it right.

    There you have been offered help that along with the stickies and the last 3 to 5 years of threads in this forum will help you immensely.

    Dust Collection Research - Home

    Pete

    PS. I still believe you are only joining forums to spread your name with the goal of becoming the next great Wood Wippersnapper.

  7. #21
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    Dust collection threads can certainly get emotional.

    Obviously what the OP is proposing will never approach Bill Pentz "1000CFM or Die" category. Clearly he should not be implying that it does, although I'm not sure that he did.

    So, no comparison to a full size dust collector, but how does it compare to a shopvac? That question was interesting enough for me to actually try to answer. After some thinking, research, and a bit of arm waving I came up with an estimate. For 2.5" ports and hose, like a benchtop planer (thicknesser), it might have about a 50% flow advantage over a shopvac. For a 1" port like a sander or router though the flow will be about half.

    Inorder to compare the two I started with my usual generic shopvac curve of 80" and 100CFM. After looking at my various leaf blowers, checking marketing specs and assuming input kva the same as a shopvac I decided to use 20" and 400CFM for the leaf blower. You can see those two curves on the following chart, shopvac Blue and leaf blower Orange.
    LeafBlower.JPG
    The Yellow system load curve assumes ten feet of 2.5" hose and a cyclone resistance equivalent to another ten feet. Assuming a filter that loses 2" at 100 CFM added to the 2.5" hose curve yields the Green system load curve. The red load curve uses 10" of 1" hose to approximate a sander or router.

    The graph shows the shopvac delivering a bit less that 100CFM to the 2.5" hose plus cyclone and filter. The leaf blower might be a little over 150CFM. The results go the other using the 1" hose with the shopvac doing 80CFM and the leaf blower 40CFM.

    Now you can certainly take issue with my assumptions but I think they're in the ballpark and the overall flavor of the results will be roughly the same.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmorse View Post
    Dust collection threads can certainly get emotional.
    Tell me about it!

    I certainly never said that I was aiming to replace a full size dust collector system, I aim is more as you say to replace my shop vac with something a little better. Im not going to argue my point anymore, believe it or not safety is also very important to me too. I have a anemometer and a pm10/pm2.5 particle meter so I will be doing tests to make sure it is AT LEAST working as well as a shop vac would.

    Thanks for your Calculations though, Really interesting to read!

  9. #23
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    Is your anemometer is one of the fan type or a hot wire type. If at the fan type they read over 30% higher than actual. Read the sticky FAQ Dust Extraction Practical aspects and the third post post summarizes it. DRAFT: FAQ - Dust Extraction (Practical Aspects)

    Pete

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by QC Inspector View Post
    Is your anemometer is one of the fan type or a hot wire type. If at the fan type they read over 30% higher than actual. Read the sticky FAQ Dust Extraction Practical aspects and the third post post summarizes it. DRAFT: FAQ - Dust Extraction (Practical Aspects)

    Pete
    Yes it's one with a little fan, and yes I have read that the reading is not really to be trusted. For me though I will be using it to compare against my shopvac. So the results will be bias in both case's.

    If the project warrants a hot wire anemometer test then I might see if I can get hold of one.

  11. #25
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    https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...Probe&_sacat=0
    A hot wire tester that has been used by a member or two.

    Pete

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewoodbasher View Post
    ... I aim is more as you say to replace my shop vac with something a little better...
    Maybe my point wasn't clear enough. I did not say that the leaf blower was BETTER than a shopvac only that it is DIFFERENT. Each fan curve is optimized for a specific application. The main constraint is the approximately 1.5kva available from a typical consumer power outlet. Within that constraint a designer picks blower characteristics to match the anticipated usage. It's a lot like the gear ratios on a bicycle or a tractor or a sports car. There's a limited amount of power available and you choose gears to match the load.

    The leaf blower looks good for wide open loads but quickly loses that advantage when the flow path becomes restricted, as with a small port device, certain floor tools and especially a crevice tool. A shopvac is optimized for a range of uses. A leaf blower is optimized for moving leaves (and cleaning DC filters).

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewoodbasher View Post
    I aim is more as you say to replace my shop vac with something a little better.
    What about a very novel idea then - buy a better Shop Vac? Just a thought...although a video of you researching, purchasing and installing a good quality SV may not be too appealing on Youtube.


    Quote Originally Posted by QC Inspector View Post
    ...with the goal of becoming the next great Wood Wippersnapper.
    Maybe more of a Blowhard than a Wippersnapper?


    It certainly seems that this fella is on a hard push for subscribers. In 10 days he started 6 threads on here, and bugger me if each one doesn't have a link to his channel. Threads were started on 23,25,26,26,31 May and 1 June. I would have thought that qualifies as a spammer. (even his introduction thread has a link) That makes nil threads started without a link......
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  14. #28
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    The OP should read the stickies to see how any measurements should be done.

    Vacs are typically used for cleaning up, their portability, and on power tools. They look like they work really well on power tools because they collect chips but their fine dust performance is less effective.

    What few people realise is; when standard power tool with a fan in them are connected to a dust extractor/Vac, the tortuous air/dust pathway through the tool, the teeny tiny ports usually provided and even the fan inside the tool are serious flow limiter in any fine dust collection process.
    My testing has showed that as long as the extraction/flow of the naked extractor/vac exceeds that of the fan in the power tool then it is pointless to try to add more suction to the end of the power tool.
    The other important factor is the workpiece itself blocking the escaped dust from being collected.

    The fact that the tool fan is a significant rate limiting step on power tools is why conventional dust extractors can be used on power tools provided 50 mm hose is used. I understand the resistance to using large hose sizes on power tools but there are ways of managing this.

    Stock machines (and power tools ) are notoriously choked in terms of extracting enough air through the machine/tools so unless this is attended to, then attempts at more suction are largely a waste of time.
    It is possible to get more flow by using really high fan pressures but then the machine/tool will sound like a jet engine as will any impeller required to generate these pressures.

    If anyone wants to make a contribution to dust collection improvement using a shop vac then forget the vac and maybe start with the tools, which will be much harder than it looks.

    Fine dust escaping from power tools is inevitable which is why I am a real "fan" of ventilation, especially for Aussie sheds and DIYers with tight budgets. In a typical small DIY shed a couple of large bathroom fans running continuously will assist greatly in extracting escaped dust at a low cost, both in terms of cost fo the fan and running. Ideally the target is 20 room changes per hour so you may need more than a couple of fans or up the stakes a bit and see if you can find a more efficient fan like squirrel cage fan. In colder climes room air filters can be employed.

  15. #29
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    Re: pushing for you tube subscribers.

    This does indeed give me the pips.

    But what gives me the pips even more is this pressing/obsessive desire to use video just because we can.
    I do post videos when there is something worth showing that is of a dynamic nature but generally restrict it to as short as possible and with no superflous info

    Instead we see
    - lengthy titles accompanied by elevator music.
    - slow intros often featuring length voiceovers describing what happened "in my last video"
    - uber crappy, repetitious camera work - don't you just lurve that 5 minutes of fast motion assembly of an Ikea equivalent object?
    - taking 10 minutes to describe what could be done with a photo or two and a short written paragraph that can be digested at leisure.
    - some of them are near impossible to understand - what substances are these people on?
    - some of the theory presented is woefully inadequate or outright incorrect

    I used to offer these as suggestions for improvements in the comments sections of some vids but this has started is now happening so often that apart from recommendations I rarely visit you ttube.

    Sooner of later you tube will have to do something about this - some has to delete all this crap before we drown in it.
    Actually I reckon we are already drowning in it now.

  16. #30
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    Agreed Bob, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Sooner of later you tube will have to do something about this - some has to delete all this crap before we drown in it.
    Not going to happen while YT is making money out of it. Apart from that, I seriously doubt there are any DE experts on YT staff (or experts in the topics of any of the other plethora of dangerous vids). How would they determine what is dangerous?

    Whilst it is necessary to challenge blowhard ideas on this forum, it is probably more important to have the comments in the actual YT section - for that is where the OP hopes he will have the biggest audience.

    More than anything I think spammers should be bounced out.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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