Thread: Dust Extraction - Cyclone

If anyone is interested, the Cyclone is nearly finished, just have to solder up the joints and attach the fan/motor. Pic below.

I visited the site you mentioned and left more confused than when I went in. What is a Cyclone ? Why all this fuss about sawdust ?:confused:

Kenmil (Ken??),

What is a Cyclone? - quoted from Bill's site:

Dust Collector Cyclone
A cyclone is a simple tank with no moving parts. Dirty air comes in through an inlet and spins quickly around. This spinning throws the heavier particles outward to the cyclone walls. Airflow on the cyclone walls is slowed by friction. Particles get trapped in the slower moving air then gravity pulls them down. As the air continues to spin it slows and drops downward. The cone on the bottom of the cyclone forces that slowing air to keep the particles pressed tightly to the walls. Those particles continue to slide downward and eventually out into a dust chute. The dust chute is sealed tightly to the bottom of the cyclone with no air leaks to stir up the collected dust. At a certain place called a neutral point, the spinning clean air reverses direction and comes up through the center of the cyclone then exits through the cyclone outlet.
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As for why you would want one:
1. In Australia all wood dust is now classified as carcinogenic (liable to cause cancer)
2. As Bills site mentions - wood dust can cause breathing problems
3. Bag type dust collectors clog up (the bags that is) and lose virtually all their suction. I have two and I am constanly empting/cleaning them
4. Cyclones don't clog (unless you don't empty the collector bin before it overfills).
5. Sawdust makes a mess and I am lazy when it comes to cleaning up

Below is a picture of a completed dust collector cyclone.
(from http://www.dusteliminator.com/shoptour.html)

P.S. Maybe my first pic confused you - the thing is upside down while I work on it.

Wayne,

Thank you, now it makes a bit more sense to me, in terms of how it works/what it does. As for the danger of wood dust ? There isn't much in Australia that isn't considered carcinogenic, (we are a nation of hypochondriacs) so I am more than a little sceptical on that score. Sounds like a better way to keep things clean and tidy though, and the shortcomings of the old vacuum cleaner attachment on my table saw are pretty obvious.
Not sure I would have the space for it, though, as it looks rather large.
Thanks again for your information.

Ken

G'day Ken - As a part of this site there is a page called BADWOODS and it gives a little bit of an insight into some (and I mean SOME) of the problems that wood dust can cause.

This current list is just the tip of the iceberg there are many more timbers with many more problems ranging from a slight rash to death.

Fact of the matter is that most Aussies are not hypocondriacts. Many woodworkers suffer a wide variety of ailments later in life because of wood dust. Maybe if they had been aware of the problems earlier in the peice and used protection many would have been saved from the suffering. Once upon a time you were called a wimp or a sissy if you used a dust mask or ear muffs etc. Knowing what we know now you are a nothing short of a bloody idiot if you don't.

Hope this answers the "Why all this fuss about sawdust?" question.

Cheers - Neil.

Neal,

I totally agree with all your comments.

Ken,

The cyclone does look large but it does not really take up too much space. The one I am making is 450 x 450 and about 2200mm high (depending on the height of the collection bin). The filters on the side add about 200mm to the width. So in floor area it takes a similar amount to the twin bag units. Its the height of the unit that makes it look big.

Neal,

Thank you for your reply. I have had a look at the list. I would have to say that I have never had skin irritations or anything else from sawdust, so I am still sceptical, but of course it is a given that breathing anything other than clean air is not ideal, so I guess I am not entirely a lost cause on this subject.

I suppose I am just questioning the degree to which some folk are prepared to go to avoid breathing sawdust particles, yet they walk around outside breathing polluted air in all of our cities. Obviously anyone who has a pre-existing respiratory condition needs to take these precautions, but for the rest of us I doubt it.

It's also interesting that all these timbers have been labelled carinogenic in Australia, but have they been so classified in the USA, Britain, Germany etc ? It has been my experience that this country is overly pedantic with these things, and hence the government departments who issue such warnings are a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf'. Ask yourself why we have many more supposedly asthmatic children than any other developed country, and why "cot death" is almost rampant in Australia, yet is relatively unknown in many other countries.

Only last night I heard a TV news report to the effect that too many people had taken notice of the sunscreen message, and now we had tens of thousands of people with a vitamin D deficiency. They said that we had now to reassess our exposure to the sun, as we were not getting enough !!!

Sorry, I just realised I am starting to rave on, and you were just trying to be helpful, so please don't be offended. This subject pressed one of my buttons, that's all.

Ken - No offence taken.

However, it's not what the dust does to you to day that is the worry it is the effect that it has down the track some 20 years or more.

Blackwood has been banned from use in schools because of a little problem called blackwood itch. A serious and prolonged asthma style attack. The Education department was loosing many thousands of hours work per year due to this one.

Many of the problems weren't so obvious in the past because much of the work was done by hand. However the advent of high speed machines and power tools at very affordable prices puts this problem up there with smoking, and we all know that smoking is really good for us. It doesn't cause cancer, heart problems, emphasima, stroke or any of that stuff, no that's just good old Aussie hypochondria.

Wayne - the cyclone looks great. I am always envious of someone who can build something in metal. Bloody useless at it myself.

Cheers - NEIL.

Wayne, like Neil, I too am useless at metal work.

So, if you can't make a cyclone, can you purchase one? Alternatively, is someone out there prepared to make one for sale?

My experience is similar to the one expressed in the site to which you referred. I have a ceiling hung air filter, and a 1.5hp single bag extraction ducted system and my Triton dust extraction equipment.

Trouble is, my shop still has a fine layer of dust. Then there’s the problem of cleaning the filters. Doing so creates an almighty cloud of fine dust which I then breath in whilst cleaning.

So what would it cost me to purchase a completed cyclone???:confused:

Neil,

Thanks mate. This is the first time I have worked with sheet steel and it is turning out Ok (I think). Believe me I would much rather work with wood but I don't think a wooden cyclone would be very efficient

Woodchuck,

I know that Timbecon has one in their cattledog but, from what I have read, it does not look like a good design and only uses a Bag filter which will just put the fine dust back in the air!!

You could take the Plans from Bills site to a sheet metal works (they are in an excel spreadsheet you can download from here http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworki...heetMetric.xls) and get them to quote/build the metal parts. Then you could just make the plywood top & frame and mount the motor/fan. Add some PVC duct and away goes the dust

Don,
there are a few on the market – the ones I have seen are stocked by a wood work warehouse (?) down towards Braeside.

Wayne,
nice job – what sort of outlay was involved ?
Hope those ceiling mounts hold up to the forces

Ken, mate…
A close relative of mine who was a long time backyard wood turner only a few years ago ended up with lung cancer. Never smoked, lived in the country, no family history of similar events, etc. After significant investigation it was put down to wood dust exposure. Through the miracle of modern surgery the affected lung was removed allowing him to live. Through my work I have met three other people in the recent past who have been unfortunate to have suffered similar fate. I doubt that I am the only member here that this applies to.

As stated above cancers associated with wood dust have been known for some time, however with the advent of power tools a trend showed that traditional health problems escalated with the advent of this new economy.

Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Hungary, Japan, Luxembourg, Mauritius, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Romania, Slovac Republic, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the USA support the research findings that wood dust is hazardous to health, with hardwood dust being clearly linked to certain forms of cancer. This is also supported by the International Labour Organisation, World Health Organisation and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), part of the World Health Organisation, who originally found that wood dust is a carcinogen (cancer causing). Clearly the weight of the developed nations supports these findings.

Likewise further research directed at those working with various timbers found that there were direct links across many people in many countries showing certain woods have detrimental health effects ranging from skin disorders to industrial asthma.

Of course there are many other health hazards out there from industrial and social pollution to improper use of chemicals. Developed countries have put in place controls and defences to reduce impact of these on our standards of living and health, but we cannot control what anyone wishes to do in their own back yard.

If you chose not to protect yourself that is your decision, but I would hope that most people base their decisions on the weight of research and educated findings as opposed to hearsay and conspiracy theory.