Thread: Modification to default DC & Cyclone setup. Viable?

Without getting into fine detail, that cyclone combined with that DC will only generate about 300 CFM of flow.
Mounting the motor about the cyclone will make no difference as the old design cyclone will be the limiting factor.
The cyclone will keep the filter clean but at the expense of reduced flow which will be OK for chips but @ 300CFM it's around 3x too small to have a hope of gathering fine dust at the source.

The best flow (800-900 CFM) that can be achieved with a 2HP DC is to convert it to all 6" duct operation as per the sticky in this forum. Putting anything else in the way like a cyclone will only slow the air sped down.

As BobL is saying flow is everything, and keeping restriction down is the name of the game. The kit you have chosen probably isn't the best starting point. I am on a similar journey to yourself but with a 3hp setup.

Like yourself I am looking for quiet, compact but powerful so investigating different options. I have been looking at a system loosely based on what you proposed but thinking of putting the motor / blower in a box for further noise reduction like this http://s2.photobucket.com/user/Holes...ctor1.jpg.html

The muffler looks to be a substantial restriction due to it's size, but nothing would stop you building a bigger one inside the box.

Unless the cyclone is modern design e.g. BP design, it serious stymies the flow in the system. -On a 2HP system a poorly designed cyclone can rob 50% of the static pressure so while it keeps the bags clean it also fails to pick up the dust in the first place.

Originally Posted by BobL

Unless the cyclone is modern design e.g. BP design, it serious stymies the flow in the system.

Thanks muchly. So, BP design = Bill Pentz. ? ClearVue isn't an option, the boss would have a fit.

Anyway, having recently done (some minimal) cutting & sanding, we ended up with a house full of dust - and that's just the stuff we can SEE.
Google's led me to numerous posts about how serious the stuff we can't see is, so I want to make the place as safe as possible for the 2 princesses (and myself).
So while I've ordered the afore mentioned package, I don't believe it's not too late to cancel and purchase alternative stuff.
I am limited by size (single car garage) and power - I don't want to go the 15amp and/or phase 3 route - so I believe that removes any 3hp setup.

I was also considering the Jet 1200vx from carbatec, but thought the one I ordered would allow me to move the filter completely outside.

I'm guessing that my only real option is to forgo any cyclone, annoy the neighbors by having the unit outside [noise factor] and have a long run of 6" hose from the unit into the garage?

I guess my original post should have stipulated that my PRIMARY goal was to keep as much dust out of the house as possible.

Thanks again.
Tob

OK if taking it outside on a temporary basis could result in annoying the neighbours, why not make a mobile (on wheel) noise reduction enclosure and put the DC inside that?

A sandwich of; MDF - foam insulation - MDF; for all 6 sides will be needed.
The foam can be the sort of thing they pack Hard drives in or old foam mattresses.
The MDF will need to be as thick/heavy as you can afford (preferably 18 mm) and it will have to be stiffened so that it does't act like a drum.
The enclosure will need a well sealed door and a baffled vent to allow air to escape but not too much noise.
It will weigh at lot - but there is no escaping this.
My sandwich is colour bond sheeting, 32mm melamine, 50 or 75 mm foam and the 16 mm Chipboard or MDF.
If you want more details I can provide this.

If cancelling is an option the 3hp DC-7 is only a 10A plug single phase (draws about 9 amps), and would help greatly toward picking up the loose dust.

Ignorance really is bliss.
3 hours buried inside BP's website discovering that a single car garage requires dust extraction that occupies more space than the garage itself.

I've go no option to 'vent' from the garage except under the tilt garage door.
The prevailing wind direction (of course) is straight into the garage - demonstrated by the layers of dust on both levels of our house following my first little bit of work.

As I said, having read enough of BP's stuff to scare me I guess a return to golf and selling the tools is the best option.
OK. maybe not. But late Saturday night I was thinking it was my only 'safe' option.

I suspect that my only workable solution due to physical space and power requirements is to cancel the order for the kit above.
In it's place I'm thinking of the Jet DC-1200.

It's got a smaller footprint for when it's not in use.
I will throw a muffler onto it (neighbor noise consideration) and when I need to do use any tools, I'll move it outside the garage. (Outside location means I can make do with standard filter bag instead of 2micron filter - so that's one small bonus.)
I'll run a 6" pipe from the JET into the garage and will split it/reduce it close to the equipment.

For the 'super fine' dust, I'll need to generate enough air flow to push the dust out the garage, rather than allowing the wind to push it into the house.
To do this I'm thinking I'll grab a couple of those big fans they have at the gyms. (or did - it's been a few years since I've seen the inside of one) - These I'll stack on top of each other in the garage/house door which should push enough air into & thru the garage.
I hope.

Anyway... that's where I'm at at the moment.
It was such a good plan.

cheers,
tob

Originally Posted by Tobster

Ignorance really is bliss.
3 hours buried inside BP's website discovering that a single car garage requires dust extraction that occupies more space than the garage itself.

I've go no option to 'vent' from the garage except under the tilt garage door.
The prevailing wind direction (of course) is straight into the garage - demonstrated by the layers of dust on both levels of our house following my first little bit of work.

As I said, having read enough of BP's stuff to scare me I guess a return to golf and selling the tools is the best option.
OK. maybe not. But late Saturday night I was thinking it was my only 'safe' option.

I suspect that my only workable solution due to physical space and power requirements is to cancel the order for the kit above.
In it's place I'm thinking of the Jet DC-1200.

It's got a smaller footprint for when it's not in use.
I will throw a muffler onto it (neighbor noise consideration) and when I need to do use any tools, I'll move it outside the garage. (Outside location means I can make do with standard filter bag instead of 2micron filter - so that's one small bonus.)
I'll run a 6" pipe from the JET into the garage and will split it/reduce it close to the equipment.

For the 'super fine' dust, I'll need to generate enough air flow to push the dust out the garage, rather than allowing the wind to push it into the house.
To do this I'm thinking I'll grab a couple of those big fans they have at the gyms. (or did - it's been a few years since I've seen the inside of one) - These I'll stack on top of each other in the garage/house door which should push enough air into & thru the garage.
I hope.

Sorry to burst your bubble on the big fans and the DC located just outside the garage door.
Both will create a vacuum inside the shed and unless there is a decent breeze blowing the vacuum will suck fine dust back in again.
The big fans physically moving a lot of air out of a closed space is a bit of an illusion.
Unless the air can me made up from another source like a window or door these fans push air outwards in line from middle of the fan and pull air back in around the outside of the fan
Now I know that solving this problem is not always possible so folks have to make do with what they can.
I just want to point out the limitations of this method in case newbie thinks this is a way to solve this problem

When a DC is located or vented outside the dust has to delivered as far away as possible from the major/main opening into the shed.
At a minimum that is on the other side of the shed from the main opening and preferably down wind.

Axial fans are better at creating a cross flow like between a window and door.

Working outside is better than working inside a closed off space.

Originally Posted by BobL

Sorry to burst your bubble on the big fans and the DC located just outside the garage door.
Both will create a vacuum inside the shed and unless there is a decent breeze blowing the vacuum will suck fine dust back in again.
The big fans physically moving a lot of air out of a closed space is a bit of an illusion.
.

Sorry, my mistake.
I should have said my only option to VENT is via the tilt garage door. The 'stacked fans' will be positioned in the garage/house doorway. So there will be an air ENTRY point.
I just need to make sure that the fans have enough 'push' to ensure that the air only travels ONE direction ... and that's not into the house.
Hence my idea of the really big fans to hopefully drag/force enough air from INSIDE the house INTO to to garage and OUT the garage tilt/door.
Also the DC will be more than 'just' outside... if I'm going to annoy the neighbors, then it's going to be just as loud sitting in/on the gutter at the end of the drive as just outside the door.
Penalty will be extra length of ducting for the air to go thru, but it's use is now for the 'visible' chips and the 'normal' sized dust, while the 'fine' dust gets forced out by the fans.

Cheers,
tob

Originally Posted by Tobster

Sorry, my mistake.
I should have said my only option to VENT is via the tilt garage door. The 'stacked fans' will be positioned in the garage/house doorway. So there will be an air ENTRY point. [/QUOTE\
That's much better!

[QUPOTE]I just need to make sure that the fans have enough 'push' to ensure that the air only travels ONE direction ... and that's not into the house.
Hence my idea of the really big fans to hopefully drag/force enough air from INSIDE the house INTO to to garage and OUT the garage tilt/door.

It's always better to pull than push air. The other possibility is to have a push and pull arrangement.

Also the DC will be more than 'just' outside... if I'm going to annoy the neighbors, then it's going to be just as loud sitting in/on the gutter at the end of the drive as just outside the door.
Penalty will be extra length of ducting for the air to go thru, but it's use is now for the 'visible' chips and the 'normal' sized dust, while the 'fine' dust gets forced out by the fans.

Noise reducing enclosures have been a running topic here - it may be worth look at these.