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  1. #1
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    Default High Pressure Ducted System

    Has anyone thought about installing a high pressure ducted vacuum system utilising a house central vacuum unit for small tools such as sanders, workshop cleaning etc. The ducting is very cheap and the Vacuum units aren't stupidly expensive the last time I looked, they started at about $600 from memory. With multiple ports it would make cleaning after a job easier and less likely to disturb dust that has already settled for instance and you would not have to be dragging around a vacuum cleaner for any reason. I may be possible to buy used vacuum units but I have not looked at that.
    CHRIS

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  3. #2
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    moonbi nsw Aus
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    I have been thinking for a while about this subject. I was thinking along the lines of a vacuum device on a "boom" to go with you while you are using a power tool (belt sander comes to mind). I have a couple of house hold vacuums that I think I will use, but with a bit more ducting and thought I may be able to have a number of vacs doing the job in a broader way.

    It will be interesting reading what others have to say
    Just do it!

    Kind regards Rod

  4. #3
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    Default

    I have got vacuum cleaner that I use in that fashion and it is a major PIA without a boom and is always in the way when I want to leave the bench or move to a new tool etc. I am thinking of an installed hard ducting system with short drops that a hose could either be left plugged in and the tool connected to that hose as needed or hoses left connected and tools then connected but with Blast Gates or plugs to block the unused line(s).
    CHRIS

  5. #4
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    Default

    HiChris,

    Such a thing is on the "to do" list.

    I have a big 60 ltr shed Vac with two 1200 watt motors independently switched which should give enough power for a ducted system.

    Intended use would be for an overhead flexible hose for sanders etc and other tools which lend themselves to small diameterextraction such as hand-held routing etc.

    One day ...
    Doug3030's Open Shed Day 2019 - Sunday 6 October 2019, Hoppers Crossing
    See here for details:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f303/...-2019-a-224305

  6. #5
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    Default

    There are at least a couple of members who have done this. John Samuel is one I recall who did an excellent implementation and he has described his in detail in the dust forum.

    If you already have an externally vented DC and a shop vac with an outlet post it is easy to vent the outlet port into any point on the DC system,.
    I do this when I use occasionally my Ryobi shop vac in the shed by attaching a couple of m of flex to the outlet and poke that into the nearest DC port.
    Because of vac leaks etc it's still not as good as having the shop vac outside the workshop.

  7. #6
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    Default

    My idea is that IF I can use all my dirty powered hand tools, router, belt sander, drill in one place then I could adapt a piece of std vacuum hose to each one then the other end of hose plugs into my 2HP dusty 150mm pipe system... hopefully it will work
    Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    There are at least a couple of members who have done this. John Samuel is one I recall who did an excellent implementation and he has described his in detail in the dust forum.

    If you already have an externally vented DC and a shop vac with an outlet post it is easy to vent the outlet port into any point on the DC system,.
    I do this when I use occasionally my Ryobi shop vac in the shed by attaching a couple of m of flex to the outlet and poke that into the nearest DC port.
    Because of vac leaks etc it's still not as good as having the shop vac outside the workshop.
    That is not what I want because the vacuum takes up floor space and generally gets in the way, has to be moved each time to a new tool position and the whole thing is a pain. I spoke to John many years ago when he first raised the idea and he approached me for some suggestions but I was not aware of what he did about it in the end. Fence Furniture also did something along these lines on a much smaller scale than I envisage also. Making & automating the blast gates should be interesting.
    CHRIS

  9. #8
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    Default

    Chris, can I assume that you what a bigger external VAC (bigger than the typical 1400W to 2000W shop VAC) perhaps to overcome loss in some extra long runs of hardline PCV which will likely be run to dedicated dust ports around a big WS? Mine only had 3m runs of hardline and then a 3m run of flex plugged into the desired port, only a 1400w external VAC with external cyclone and bin.

    Mike.

  10. #9
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    Mike, I am only tossing ideas around to see who has done what and not re-invent the wheel so to speak. I would have to buy a vacuum of some description so a vacuum meant to run a ducted system makes sense but it might be overkill. My workshop is 9.5 x 7 so a maximum duct length might be about 11 metres in total. I have nil idea what a domestic pull along vacuum would be capable of so my thoughts were to use what is known to work. If a lesser vacuum will do the job at less cost bring it on. Do you feel you suffer big losses through the duct?
    CHRIS

  11. #10
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    Default

    From what I can see, the loss in a HI-VAC system is not as great as in a LP DC.

    I think you could use a simple dual split system: Two low cost VACs with blower ports (important) or dedicated exhaust ports on the VAC.

    Each unit mounted on the outside and towards each end of the 9.5 wall. This would give you two systems with a split of around two 3m to 4m runs of hard line to cover the 9.5 long wall and two 7m walls and a total of 8 to 10 outlets between the two if needed.

    Cyclones are around $25.00 (I feel you really need them) and having a VAC exhaust port allows you to keep the external cabinet clean from a build up of very fine powered dust over time. The big plus, the exhaust port allows you to remove almost all of the bothersome high frequency noise from the external VAC system. I've gone from cringing when it was running (worrying about close neighbours), to now barely noticing it running when I'm outside the shed. And a simple remote power on/off is a must have, I use a couple of tiny hand held units placed in convenient positions.

  12. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Mike, I am only tossing ideas around to see who has done what and not re-invent the wheel so to speak. I would have to buy a vacuum of some description so a vacuum meant to run a ducted system makes sense but it might be overkill. My workshop is 9.5 x 7 so a maximum duct length might be about 11 metres in total. I have nil idea what a domestic pull along vacuum would be capable of so my thoughts were to use what is known to work. If a lesser vacuum will do the job at less cost bring it on. Do you feel you suffer big losses through the duct?
    A 2kW vac with s 32/35mm diam corrugated hose loses between 1/5 and 1/3rd of its vacuum pressure when using ~5m long hose..
    Vacs generally have plenty vac pressure to begin with so they can afford to lose this without that much loss of duct collection ability.

    When smooth walled 50 mm ID PVC ducting is used at the nominal flow rates of a vac the losses are much smaller.
    For example a 10 m length of 50 mm ducting loses about 0.5" of WC carrying about 100 CFM.
    Since vacs typically have many dozens of inches of WC then losing 1/2" doesn't make much difference.
    Of course some allowance will be needed for junctions etc.

    I wouldn't go any larger than 50 mm otherwise the dust could fall out of suspension.
    I wouldn't go smaller than 40 mm for the ducting.
    For comparison 10m of 32 mm smooth walled PVC ducting will lose slightly less than 5m of corrugated 32 mm

    Like most vac systems, most of the suck is lost by the hose.

  13. #12
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    Default

    Just a follow up on the post but BobL.

    I find I normally end up using around 3m of flex hose from the ducted port. I used 50mm hard line for the ducting. The thing is that I have to use the typical small 35mm light weight VAC hose when connected to a small power tool, this removes the weight of the flex from the tool and allows freedom of use, and yes I notice the loss in that flex, but as most small handheld machine ports are constricted and fortunately supplemented by an inbuilt fan, it all seems to work really well. Anything left behind from the VAC and tool is usually grabbed by the big DC and downdraft table that I normally work on.

    For WS cleanup I use quality 50mm grey DC flex.

    EDIT: Also from Bobs figures, it look like you could easily use a single central mounted external VAC and 50mm PVC hard line.

    Mike

  14. #13
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    Default

    I run 50mm ducting around my shed for connection to various units such as table saw fence, router fence, belt sander, scms dust port etc.
    i donít have gates, I just have caps I put on the ends of the pipes not in use.
    The piping is connected to a cyclone and a Shop vac which is exhausted outside the shed.
    Works well.

  15. #14
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    Default

    Chris, have you seen Dave Stanton's video? He demonstrates his system connected to his shop vac.

    YouTube

    Kind regards,
    Lance

  16. #15
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    Default

    Another advantage of using a designed for ducting vacuum is that a lot of them don't use bags and if there is one thing I detest on this earth it is dust bags. I could use a small cyclone though and that would save a fair bit of money.

    Lappa, yes caps would work but designing an automated blast gate small enough sounds like a lot of fun because I have nothing to do and I might run out of projects, yeah right. I was thinking about using swimming pool PVC which I think is 40mm IIRC.
    CHRIS

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