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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Victoria - Ferntree Gully
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    53

    Default Recommendations for 3HP Dust Extractors

    Hi Everyone,

    I currently have a 2HP single bag 20+ year old dusty and would like to upgrade to something better at collecting the fine dust as it just doesnt have the suction to do it.

    I am looking at the different 3HP units available and most seem to have the 305mm impellers. I currently run 4" line, however I have BMH's ready to upgrade to 6" so will require at minimum 6" inlet to DC.
    I also like to tinker, so dont mind adding reverse BMH entry etc to improve if the benefits are there.

    My questions are

    - Is there much difference between all of the models from different suppliers? (in the $450-$650 price range)
    - Are there any suppliers that use 355mm impellers in this range? (reading through all of the info on here it seems larger impeller is better for CFM)
    - Does anyone have recommendation for a particular brand, if so why?
    - Is my budget enough or should I be looking at something at double the price?

    I would like to upgrade once so I dont have to do it again in a couple years time, so dont mind spending a bit more for a decent unit.

    Anyway, Im interested in everyones opinion.

    Best Regards
    Smarty

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    NSW
    Age
    37
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    1,126

    Default

    i bought the cheapest bayer 3hp model i could find which was $450 everything on it is cheapest quote. i had a look at the equivalent carbatec one and couldn't spot too many differences. the filters felt a bit weightier and the bags a big thicker.

    honestly if i was to do it again, i would probably just buy another single bag 2HP model that already came with a pleated filter. i'm now looking at $500ish dollars to put 2x nice cleanable, pleated filters on them.

    i can see how the two bags are more convenient though.

    New dust extractor reccomendations and build log

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Victoria - Ferntree Gully
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Thanks havabeer69, interesting, why do you say to just buy another 2HP model rather than the 3HP?

    Do you think the quality of the Bayer is good, and are the inlets and outlets the same size as the alternatives?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,757

    Default

    If they use the same size impeller the only significant difference between the generic 3HP 2x twin bag DCs and the 2HP 1 x 2 bag DCs is the extra flow provided by the extra bags on the 3HP models. Of course there is the benefit of more bag capacity on the 3HP models requiring them to be emptied less often.

    This happens because if the impellers have the same size and rotate at the same speed (2850 rpm at 50Hz) there will be no significant difference in flow. There may be small differences in impeller design and how well everything is put together that improve the pressure generated under load but I have nit seen anything like this on these budget DCs.

    To get more flow, the impeller has to be larger and/or spun faster. There's no substitute for increasing the size of the impeller but as soon as that is done the motor power has to be increased. The most a 3HP can run continuously is a 355mm impeller.

    One way to spin the impeller faster is to use a 3P motor and a VFD but this only works up to about 60Hz which means a 20% increase in flow. Above 60Hz it will make a hell of a racket and the current drawn by the motor will (eventually) let out the smoke. Some 3HPs come with 3P 415V motors but they may already be wired as delta which means they cannot be converted to 3P 240V operations.

    If you have the space a second 2HP DC converted to 6" duct operation is a reasonable idea as it could be located so as to halve the distance from machinery to the DC. If you a restricted for room it could become a PITA.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Victoria - Ferntree Gully
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Thanks BobL

    Are there any commercially available with larger impellers that you know of?

    Where does one purchase a larger impeller from if they wanted to go down this route?

    Am I correct to assume the 3PH motor would need to be a Star connection to be suitable for 1PH 240V operation?

    Sorry for all the questions....

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    27,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty90 View Post
    Thanks BobLAre there any commercially available with larger impellers that you know of?
    I bought my 330mm impeller DC from Carbatec in 2011 but I see its no longer available on their website.Not cheap - it was on special for $1000 normally about 20% more.
    The Timbecon DC5000 has a 330 mm impeller
    https://www.timbecon.com.au/3hp-indu...dust-extractor

    Where does one purchase a larger impeller from if they wanted to go down this route?
    They are really really hard to get.Hare and Forbes will only sell you one as a replacement for a damaged one in a DC bought from them and you have to give them the old one back.You can order a 16" from Clearvue, The Impeller blade alone is $800 and the housing is $600. Plus shipping from the US

    Am I correct to assume the 3PH motor would need to be a Star connection to be suitable for 1PH 240V operation?.
    To run on 1P 240V it can be star (Y) or delta(∆) as long as its for 240V 3P.
    A 3P Y 415V motor can be converted to ∆ which makes it a 3P 240V motor
    A 3P ∆ 415 cannot be used - converting it to Y makes it a 3P 690V motor
    A 3P ∆ 240 can be used - converting it to Y makes it a 3P 415V motor so it cannot be used on 240V this way
    A 3P Y 240 can be used - converting it to ∆ makes it a 3P 110V motor so it cannot be used on 240V this way

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    NSW
    Age
    37
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    1,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty90 View Post
    Thanks havabeer69, interesting, why do you say to just buy another 2HP model rather than the 3HP?

    Do you think the quality of the Bayer is good, and are the inlets and outlets the same size as the alternatives?
    a lot of the reason are mentioned above by bob. but everything just feels very thin, i think a good bash or knock and the sheet metal would just about pop apart. but for $450 cant really complain.


    something like this would be more suitable for my situation, again based on space and the fact it already comes with a pleated filter compared to a bag. just depends how much modifying you want to do to open it up.
    Dust Collector 1PH 2HP Cannister Top / Plastic Bottom 1Bag FM300B by Oltre – Beyond Tools

    FM300B.jpg

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Victoria - Ferntree Gully
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Hi BobL, do you have any experience with this type of DC that Carbatec is currently offering?

    It is running a 368mm impeller with only a 2HP motor, which seems underpowered compared to other units for this sized impeller.
    Is the design that much better that it uses that much less power? The Figures seem quite good as far a CFM are concerned, although it is quite pricey!

    CDC-1450P.jpg
    CT Cyclone Pressure Graphs 2020.pdf

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    7,696

    Default

    I used to stock & sell impellers and I thought Steven (Clearvue) would have continued that but perhaps not if the demand wasn't there. This machine uses a 17" impeller if you can persuade them to import one.

    MWE-207CF Cyclone Unit - Major Woodworking Equipment

    From this page which has lesser units

    Dust Units - Dust Units and Accessories - Woodworking - Major Woodworking Equipment
    CHRIS

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty90 View Post
    Hi BobL, do you have any experience with this type of DC that Carbatec is currently offering?

    It is running a 368mm impeller with only a 2HP motor, which seems underpowered compared to other units for this sized impeller.
    Is the design that much better that it uses that much less power? The Figures seem quite good as far a CFM are concerned, although it is quite pricey!
    I've said this number of times on the forum - these designs are pretty old and inefficient and that's probably why they can run on a 2H motor. The quoted CFM figures are in the "Dreamin" territory.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    95

    Default

    G'day Smarty90, I recently changed my Carbatec 2hp dusty for a Leda 3hp. The Leda is made in Taiwan, not China like the cheaper models arround and you can tell the diff. Thicker steel, physically lager motor, etc. I have seen a noticeable diff in performance as well, maybe it is the twin bags, maybe it is the 3hp, I don't know.I do use 6 inch ducting throughout my shed and this made a diff even with the 2 hp.
    For my money, and I don't think you will readily get a larger than 12 inch impellor in Aus (other than referred to above), I would spend the extra and get a Taiwanese made 3hp dusty with twin bags.
    Geoff

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Victoria - Ferntree Gully
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    Default

    Thanks Geoff, which model did you get as they have two 3HP models from Leda?

    Appreciate the feebback by the way )

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
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    Default

    If you want an impeller you have to ask the retailers if they can supply. It would not be rocket science to make one as many have done, there is a thread/post in the archives of the forum showing a smaller one that has had the vanes lengthened by welding extensions on the vanes and no one died when it was turned on. I have no idea how to find the post and it was many years ago but searching might excavate it.
    CHRIS

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smarty90 View Post
    Thanks Geoff, which model did you get as they have two 3HP models from Leda?

    Appreciate the feebback by the way )
    I don't have the Docs one me at the moment but the cheaper system is Chinese made and the expensive system is Taiwanese.
    Geoff

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