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  1. #1
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    Default Thein baffle vs Dust Deputy

    Hi Folks, I am in the process of rebuilding and upgrading my dust collection system. At the moment I have a single stage Hafco DC-2. I'm considering building a new blower on the general plan used by Matthias Wandel, using the 2 HP motor from the Hafco. The rotor is pretty basic and the casing doesn't appear to have an efficient form, so that's a ground-up build.

    Question 1. I'm not keen at all on using MDF, so I'd like some thoughts on a suitable material that has uniform density, CD ply is out because of the voids. Birch ply, if available, would be prohibitively expensive. I would not need a great deal, just enough to make the top and bottom discs for the rotor.

    Question 2. Which is more efficient, a proprietary cyclone like a Dust Deputy, or a home crafted Thien baffle separator?

    Cheers,
    Jon452

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  3. #2
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon542 View Post
    At the moment I have a single stage Hafco DC-2. I'm considering building a new blower on the general plan used by Matthias Wandel, using the 2 HP motor from the Hafco.
    Hi Jon,
    welcome to the forum. I think the Hafco DC-2 has a 1HP motor?

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Hi Jon,
    welcome to the forum. I think the Hafco DC-2 has a 1HP motor?
    Hi jack620. I'l have to check, but I'm fairly sure I saw 2 HP on the motor label. At this moment it's 35 kilometres away at home, while I'm on radio watch at Boonooroo. (Qld). I'll get back to you on that one .....

  5. #4
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Hi Jon,
    welcome to the forum. I think the Hafco DC-2 has a 1HP motor?
    The DC-2 is indeed 1HP and moves so little air it simply cannot contribute much in terms of fine wood dust collection. I had a 1HP DC for 2 years, then a modified 2hp for a year, then a 3hp for 7 years and now a 4hp for ~2 years.
    The biggest difference between these DCs in terms of moving enough air was between the first one and the other 3. I’m not sure what you working setup is or the machines you are planning to connect to but no matter what is done to a 1HP DC, but especially adding any sort of separator or cyclone which will restrict flow its likely to lead to bitter disappointment in terms of dust collection for even the most occasional DIY WW.

    It’s still not ideal but the minimum starting point for half decent dust control is a modified DC with no cyclone or separator, 150 mm ducting, with the DC located or vented outside a shed. All 3 are needed but especially the outside location are really important.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jon542 View Post
    Question 2. Which is more efficient, a proprietary cyclone like a Dust Deputy, or a home crafted Thien baffle separator?
    According to this guy the cyclone wins.

    YouTube

  7. #6
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    Sydney Upper North Shore
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    Default

    First of all, measurements are inaccurate, however he is using the same meter and the same method so comparisons can be made but airflows stated disregarded.
    Second, I have a lot of trouble believing someone who goes to all the trouble to show him measuring one then just stating the other. Very easy to just quote figures.

    I made a Thien out of a 160 litre drum but it’s on the outlet of the impellor. It’s outlet is into fresh air however it runs in parallel to a pleated filter hence it only uses 4” pipes. Thinking of upgrading it to 6” sometime and having it as the only filter. I havent done any comparisons with a Dust Deputy do can’t comment in that respect.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Brisbane, Qld
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    Default

    Question for the learned: Would placing a Thien baffle or Dust Deputy cyclone on the outlet side of the impellor and then venting outside the shed (that is no filters or bags) avoid the system pressure loss (and attendant air throughput) evident when the baffle or cyclone is placed before the impellor?
    Geoff

  9. #8
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    Perth
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    Default

    Pressure drop will not change.

  10. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    Second, I have a lot of trouble believing someone who goes to all the trouble to show him measuring one then just stating the other. Very easy to just quote figures.
    He never actually showed us the reading on the anemometer for the Thein baffle either, so he could have faked the whole thing. I seriously doubt it though.

  11. #10
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    Perth
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    FWIW Bill Pentz doesn’t think much of any separator..

  12. #11
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    Maryborough Qld
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    Default

    QUOTE=jon542;2174069]Hi jack620. I'l have to check, but I'm fairly sure I saw 2 HP on the motor label. At this moment it's 35 kilometres away at home, while I'm on radio watch at Boonooroo. (Qld). I'll get back to you on that one .....[/QUOTE]

    Hi jack620 and other responders. My bad, the DC2 is definitely 1 HP. There goes one idea ..... guess I'll have to find another. I have to watch the HP because I'm using a standard domestic power circuit and can't exceed 10 amps. Other limiting factor is finances. Age pension stretches just so far ......

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    According to this guy the cyclone wins.

    YouTube
    Gives to wonder though when guys like Wandel, Ogle and Hornberger all go for the Thein baffle. Could be a woodworker thing where they'd rather build something than buy it.

    I note in his comments however, that he used the collector from the Harbour Freight, rather than using a true Thein baffle. The design and execution is pretty agricultural. I have the same issues with the enclosure on the blower and the collector on the DC2.

    I saw in the viewer comments where a comparable Thein started off higher and wound up at the same throughput as the SDC, apparently after the filter medium clagged up. This would seem to imply that the Thein was letting through more fines, or that the higher initial air flow carried more fines through..

    One question that seems to be recurrent is that there is some angst about large bits getting to the rotor in the blower. Simple solution: put a mesh screen on the inlet to the blower. I've seen several very compact setups with the blower mounted with the rotor horizontal with the case directly connected to the Thein, with a screen between, no issues!

  14. #13
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    Feb 2020
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    Maryborough Qld
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTool View Post
    Question for the learned: Would placing a Thien baffle or Dust Deputy cyclone on the outlet side of the impellor and then venting outside the shed (that is no filters or bags) avoid the system pressure loss (and attendant air throughput) evident when the baffle or cyclone is placed before the impellor?
    Geoff
    No, that would be a design faux pas of potentially epic proportions.
    #1. Everything the system picked up would be drawn through the blower - potential rotor damage/destruction
    #2. If you are in a suburban situation, as I am, you have to consider the amount of fines you discharge into the atmosphere and also the noise factor.

  15. #14
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    Feb 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    First of all, measurements are inaccurate, however he is using the same meter and the same method so comparisons can be made but airflows stated disregarded.
    Second, I have a lot of trouble believing someone who goes to all the trouble to show him measuring one then just stating the other. Very easy to just quote figures.

    I made a Thien out of a 160 litre drum but it’s on the outlet of the impellor. It’s outlet is into fresh air however it runs in parallel to a pleated filter hence it only uses 4” pipes. Thinking of upgrading it to 6” sometime and having it as the only filter. I havent done any comparisons with a Dust Deputy do can’t comment in that respect.
    Not disparaging your setup Lappa, but the object of a separator, Thein or cyclone, is to drop out the maximum amount of shavings/bits/dust before the airflow goes through the fan. This ensures longer life for the impeller and the blower as a unit. It is smart to put a screen between the collector and the blower to keep chunky bits out if the collector can fills up and the dust/shavings etc fill up the separator. Good design feature is to have a sight panel on the side of the collector bucket so you can see when it fills up.
    Jon

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    The DC-2 is indeed 1HP and moves so little air it simply cannot contribute much in terms of fine wood dust collection. I had a 1HP DC for 2 years, then a modified 2hp for a year, then a 3hp for 7 years and now a 4hp for ~2 years.
    The biggest difference between these DCs in terms of moving enough air was between the first one and the other 3. I’m not sure what you working setup is or the machines you are planning to connect to but no matter what is done to a 1HP DC, but especially adding any sort of separator or cyclone which will restrict flow its likely to lead to bitter disappointment in terms of dust collection for even the most occasional DIY WW.

    It’s still not ideal but the minimum starting point for half decent dust control is a modified DC with no cyclone or separator, 150 mm ducting, with the DC located or vented outside a shed. All 3 are needed but especially the outside location are really important.
    Hi BobL, I'm not running anything large, all handyman size stuff. Biggest dust/shavings producer is a 13" thicknesser. 10 " bandsaw, Triton sawbench and router bench, 10" sliding mitre saw. Not all at once of course, and my reticulation is 90 mm poly pipe, all running off the DC2. Worked after a fashion but the inlet screen on the DC2 always clogged with shavings when I was putting pine through the thicknesser, and there was too much loose dust. I've just moved to another property, semi rural to suburban, so I have the opportunity to build a better system.
    Jon

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