Thread: Timbecom cyclone, any good?

Originally Posted by BobL

FWIW I reckon you are better off not using a collection bag as it becomes just another thing that can leak.

On bags, I eventually did away with the plastic bag below my filter, not below my cyclone where I've only ever had a bin.

The clear plastic bag below the filter was there as a way of monitoring for any 'shavings/debris' that got all the way through the system and collecting that if it did. After many years in which I only got less than a handful of shavings coming through when I let the cyclone drop bin overfill on one occasion. Here is what I got when I finally removed the bag (that's a 20c piece for scale)....

drop bag dust 2019.jpg

I realised I had a problem when I could hear the shavings swishing around inside the bottom of cyclone. After the overfilling episode I became more rigorous with checking to make sure that there was plenty of room left inside the drop box before beginning a session in the workshop.

The plastic bag below the filter would periodically pop off and putting it back on was a hassle so I just removed it and screwed a plate to the bottom of the filter housing, which can be unscrewed at any time if required. I might add an inspection window to the filter housing if I find myself with nothing else to do, but that isn't a priority at this stage.

I'm also increasingly avoiding allowing shavings to feed into the DE system as I find it easier for me to shovel them up off the floor straight into plastic bin bags held open in a metal garbage bin than transferring them from the cyclone bin into garbage bags. I still lift the residue off the floor and other surfaces with the DE but that is a minimal amount. Of course, I still try to capture as much fine dust as I can and have the bell mouth close up when I'm sanding on the lathe.

I would vent outside if I was installing the system again, but I think its OK for now.

If you do vent outside with no filter, how much dust gets blown out? Is this a realistic option in a suburb? My shed is at the rear of a 1/4 acre block, with the nearest houses 15 or 20 metres away. My concern is the dust being a nuisance to neighbours.

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Originally Posted by Fergiz01

If you do vent outside with no filter, how much dust gets blown out? Is this a realistic option in a suburb? My shed is at the rear of a 1/4 acre block, with the nearest houses 15 or 20 metres away. My concern is the dust being a nuisance to neighbours.

With a properly performing cyclone you shouldn't get any dust that a neighbour would notice.

Noise might be more of an issue.

Originally Posted by NeilS

On bags, I eventually did away with the plastic bag below my filter, not below my cyclone where I've only ever had a bin.

The clear plastic bag below the filter was there as a way of monitoring for any dust that got all the way through the system and collecting that if it did. After many years in which I only got less than a handful of shavings coming through when I let the cyclone drop bin overfill on one occasion. Here is what I got when I finally removed the bag (that's a 20c piece for scale)....

This is not a reliable way to check the performance of DC/cyclones with filters.
Typically all visible dust and some fine dust is filtered by cyclone but there will always be some fine (invisible) dust getting through.
A significant proportion of this can also bypass DC filters.

Maybe take a look at this Flow loss using a Dust Deputy

It's base on vacuum cleaners and a dust deputy cyclone but the principles are the same.

If the filter/cyclone is outside the shed does it really matter?

Originally Posted by BobL

This is not a reliable way to check the performance of DC/cyclones with filters.
Typically all visible dust and some fine dust is filtered by cyclone but there will always be some fine (invisible) dust getting through.

Yes, Bob, I should not have said that the bag was there to 'monitor for any dust that got all the way through the system'. I should have said it was there to monitor for any 'shavings/debris' that got all the way through the system and to collect that if it did.

The focus of my post was on there being no need for a bag there to collect 'stuff' if you don't let the drop bin below the cyclone overfill.

I wasn't intending in that post to stray into the performance of my, or any other, DC/cyclone in relation to fine dust extraction. I acknowledge that the wording in my post was sloppy and apologies if I have confused or mislead anyone!

I've edited it.

Originally Posted by Lappa

If the filter/cyclone is outside the shed does it really matter?

No, but one of the advantages of having it outside is that you can eliminate the filter.

Originally Posted by NeilS

No, but one of the advantages of having it outside is that you can eliminate the filter.

I think that's the point that Lappa was trying to make Neil. Your setup sounds very satisfactory to me. In an earlier post Bob suggested that you could use a dustpan and broom to clean up the shed but forgot to mention that this is only an acceptable option if you're kitted out with the appropriate PPE, ie. looking a bit like a space man.

In response to robertye112 I would suggest that he get a 2hp DE, as a minimum, and if at all possible locate it outside the shed. You would then need effective ventilation based on the DE location and size, length and nature of your duct (flex, solid etc.). There should be sufficient information in the preceding posts to help you determine an appropriate setup.

As far as the 'Flow loss using a Dust Deputy' thread goes it is true that 'shop vac' type machines don't capture the fine dust and simply exhaust it. There are various superior grades of Hepa filter machines available, which do a much better job of capturing the fine dust. If you use a small cyclone in a vacuum system you don't even need a bulky, inefficient shop vac style machine, I use a domestic Electrolux machine with many layers of filtration, it's been going for years and lets 1/1000 of bugger all past the filters.

I have a SuperVac which has a round outlet you can fit a pipe to. I have a pipe connected to that outlet and run it to the outside of the shed.
I also have a cheap cyclone vacuum and like Aldav’s, it has a couple of outlet Hepa filters.

Originally Posted by aldav

I think that's the point that Lappa was trying to make Neil. Your setup sounds very satisfactory to me. In an earlier post Bob suggested that you could use a dustpan and broom to clean up the shed but forgot to mention that this is only an acceptable option if you're kitted out with the appropriate PPE, ie. looking a bit like a space man.

Not necessarily.

Unless industrial size machines are in use, 20 room changes per hour will easily deal with fine wood dust injected into the air, including sweeping up. The place will look like like a tip with every surface covered in sawdust but it's what's in the air that matters and if that is continuously being swept out while its being made then health wise this works. There will still be some exposure if the operator stands between the dust generation source and the air flow so its up to the operator to minimise that by positioning themselves and machinery appropriately but in the cases where this is not possible, eg the few seconds where this happens making that saw cut, this is almost insignificantl compared to the hours spent afterwards inside a shed breathing air full of fine dust.

Originally Posted by aldav

I think that's the point that Lappa was trying to make Neil. Your setup sounds very satisfactory to me. In an earlier post Bob suggested that you could use a dustpan and broom to clean up the shed but forgot to mention that this is only an acceptable option if you're kitted out with the appropriate PPE, ie. looking a bit like a space man.

Not necessarily. Remember I said, "for most DIY weekend warriors"

Unless industrial size machines are in use, 20 room changes per hour in most DIY size sheds will easily deal with the amounts of fine wood dust typically injected into the air, including sweeping up. The place will eventually look like like a tip with every surface covered in sawdust but it's what's in the air that matters.

The exhaust fans do need to be on at all times operators are in the shed whether this is while dust is being made being made, or sweeping up, or sitting in a corner having a quiet cogitative moment. There will still be some exposure if the operator stands between the dust generation source and the air flow, so its up to the operator to minimise that by positioning themselves and machinery appropriately but in the cases where this is not possible, eg the few seconds where this happens making that saw cut, his is almost insignificant compared to the hours spent afterwards inside a shed breathing air full of fine dust. It's the total exposure that matters.

I do agree about using HEPA vacs to remove the fine dust that gets past small cyclones but unfortunately my measurements of so called HEPA vacs shows they are not all up to scratch. Anyone can call their Vac a HEPA filtered vac but unless a proper standard (eg MERV rating) is quoted I would be wary of over using one. Also unless vacs are regularly tested there is no way of knowing if they are leaking hence vac systems that vent outside would be a safe option.

OR as I occasionally do,

Use forced ventilation - then you can use any sort of vac inside your shed

I have a 6 monthly routine - Just open the doors and windows, turn on the big fan and hit it with a leaf blower

Yes, I was waiting for that.

Originally Posted by aldav

Neil. Your setup sounds very satisfactory to me.

I don't have the expertise myself on effective fine dust control to confidently recommend my setup.

However, it was guided by Bill Pentz' website and some correspondence with him before any of the consumer offerings (like Clearview) were available here or, for that matter, the later more informed discussions here on this forum.

My setup has some shortcomings (like its <14" impeller size as they weren't readily or economically available here when I was putting mine together 15yrs ago) but it does have the advantage of having at least 6" ducting and a full 3:1 cone ratio, which is Bill Pentz' recommended optimum cone ratio. Few implement that for domestic workshops because of height constraints.

I was very pleased to find how effective my system has been on fine dust control when I later on purchased a PM2.5 sensor following advice from BobL in the following thread at Post #138...

Developments in Dust Sensor tech

Note: Bob recommends doubling the readings to compensate for shortcomings in these economy sensors.

I've since found that small and economical piece of equipment to be invaluable in deciding how I go about things in the workshop to maintain fine dust control.