Thread: Usefullness of 2 Hp DC

I have a 2Hp Jet with a pleated filter, the filter is great.

I was going to plumb mine in but I found it better to just drag it around with a couple of flexible 4" hoses.

I swap it from machine to machine as I go 'cos it works best that way.

I do what Cliff does too, except I have a Thien dust cyclone / separator between the machine and the DC

Originally Posted by Little Boxes

Having read most of the posts regarding Dust Collection, & realizing that a 2hp DC is not going to capture all of the dangerous fine dust, would the purchase of such a machine be of much benefit to me in my situation. I always use a twin filter face mask when using any machine.

A 2hp dusty would definitely collect more dust than you are currently collecting. Therefore it would be a good thing.

Having said that, it would not be the ideal solution. I am sure that someone will come in and say that you need a t least 3hp and a clearvue to get all the dust.

With the equipment you are running or want to run, a 2Hp unit would be a great improvement on what you have and if you do not have the electrical capacity to run 3Hp or above, then its probably the best you can realistically do.

You are obviously aware of the need to compensate for the inadequacies of an under-powered dust collection system with a respirator. that might be wise even if you go to a 2hp unit, or work outside or manage other ventilation options to deal with what the DC cant cope with.

Cheers

Doug

General approaches I have found work are

- Anything is better than nothing
- Bigger is better
and
- like farts, better out than in.

In my dust measurements of about 20 different sheds the biggest single problem I identified was leaking dust collectors and vacuum cleaners.
Like death and taxes, leaks are inevitable and the leakiest collectors were usually those that were moved around inside a shed.
This is why the biggest single gain that can be made by anyone that has a DC inside their shed is to move it outside.
To do this effectively requires a decent size DC which is where the 2HP DC struggles as it doesn't quite have enough puff to begin with and putting it outside a shed decreases its puff even more.

Have you see the thread on modifying the 2HP DC to improve its performance?
To make the most of it you also need fro use 150 mm ducting and modify all your machinery to fully utilise this size of ducting.

There is a very good reason why there are so many 2 HP dustys out there ... cost.

A 3 HP dusty is a reasonable step up in price, and has a much bigger footprint, but its performance is still borderline when ducted.

A 4 HP ClearVue has a tiny footprint, vents outside and has better airflow again, but is more expensive, especially when you add the cost of the ducting/blast gates.

I run a ClearVue and am very happy with it because I am sure I'm getting most of the invisible dust, but not everyone is willing to part with the additional loot.

That's why I am such a fan of BobL's optimised 2 HP dusty, it puts reasonable dust collection within the budget of most woodies. It is not really powerful enough to duct (though some do). If, like most people, you are going to connect it to machines with a short length of flexy, it is likely worthwhile to use a good pleated filter and to be very wary of leaks.

It is a good idea to create a list of requirements before selecting a solution. Mine were:

1. A minimum of 800 CFM (through the machine - not the silly manufacturer's claims) to catch the fine dust.
2. Vented outside (to avoid leaks and to eliminate filters).
3. Ducted, so I did not need to drag the dusty around the shop.
4. Small footprint (important in my shop).

I bought the ClearVue because it was the cheapest system I could find that met all these requirements.

Your requirements might be different. No two woodies are alike, nor are their shops. That's a good reason to lay out your requirements before you start looking at solutions.

Have fun!

John

Originally Posted by Little Boxes

Hi all,

I'm contemplating the purchase of a 2 hp DC with a vortex cone & pleated filter. My machine list at present is

1. Triton 2000 workcentre
2. Router Table with TRA 001 router fitted. Home made & enclosed.
3. SCMS sitting on a table with a temporary cardboard enclosure to capture sawdust.
4. 4" x 6" Belt & Disc sander.
5. 12" Thicknesser
Plus - a number of power tools - some with dust extraction ports - some without.


At present my dust collection is by way of the following

Triton Dust Collector DCA 300 converted into a mini cyclone.
Hitachi Shop Vac. with a Hepa filter.
These are mounted on a mobile trolley.
The workcentre is also fitted with the Triton Dust Bag & sawdust drum.


I collect dust from the

WorkCentre using the sawguard port.
Router Table using the fence port.

My present set up works quite well, but I would like to be able to capture more of the sawdust from these machines, especially from the SCMS & Thicknesser.

Having read most of the posts regarding Dust Collection, & realizing that a 2hp DC is not going to capture all of the dangerous fine dust, would the purchase of such a machine be of much benefit to me in my situation. I always use a twin filter face mask when using any machine.

I'm also looking at getting a 6"x 9" Belt / Disc Sander, making a proper shroud for the SCMS, collecting from under the router table as well.
My workshop area is only a single carport size, & I don't intend to run permanent ducting.


I would appreciate your thoughts / views of the above.



Regards,

Alan

Alan, it's a little off track but when people list down what tools they have and are getting next (there's always something else next), I probably look at things from a "tools needed" perspective. Clearly, you need to do something to collect chips and dust. But you also need a buzzer, preferably 12", same as your thicknesser. Or a combo. You just can't have one without the other if you want to dress wood. Any chance of fitting that into the budget? Like the thicknesser, a minimum of 2hp to collect just the chips is needed.

Hi all,

Thanks to you all for your prompt replies.

The reason my reply is so late is that when I tried to submit it, a page appears - Do you want to stay on this page - Do you want to exit this page. Also when I'm typing, the cursor won't keep up with me, consequently nearly ever word has to be corrected. Very annoying.
But tonight, everything seems to be working ok.

I have researched these forums for all the valuable information that you members submit from time to time.

Most of the points you raise I have been aware of however my initial concern of whether I should add a DC to my set-up has been addressed.

I take on board all of your suggestions & have spent considerable time reading Bob L's 2HP modifications.

I intend to investigate the Thein Cyclone. It looks to do the same purpose as my Triton Dust Collector cyclone modification.


Regards,


Alan

Originally Posted by Little Boxes

. . . . .I intend to investigate the Thein Cyclone. It looks to do the same purpose as my Triton Dust Collector cyclone modification.

I don't recommend putting any cyclones or chip collectors on a 2HP, the lost of flow is significant so less fine dust is captured and fine dust passes straight through them. They do stoppe bags from getting clogged but filters should be cleaned every time the chip buckets are emptied anyway so there is little gained and some lost.

I just upgraded from a 1hp to a 2, both have pleated filters.

The new 2hp is exceptional. It claims 1600 CFM, which is a lie, but man-o-man does it move some air compared to the 1hp.

The motor tests on the killawatt a full 1500 watts. Makes LOTS of noise. Cupboard needed!

The machines and workshop are cleaner by a huge factor.

Originally Posted by Evanism

I just upgraded from a 1hp to a 2, both have pleated filters.

The new 2hp is exceptional. It claims 1600 CFM, which is a lie, but man-o-man does it move some air compared to the 1hp.

Remember, if 4" ducting is being used it's only moving ~400 CFM

The motor tests on the killawatt a full 1500 watts. Makes LOTS of noise. Cupboard needed!

While you are doing that think about venting the cupboard outside

The machines and workshop are cleaner by a huge factor.

That's the dust you can see, the stuff to worry about is the stuff you can't se.

BobL, 100% agree.

I just re-read the monster agro sticky in the dust section and apply all I can, as soon as I can. I was also relooking for your thread on hacking a 2hp.

It's a function of money for me. My income is incredibly finite due to a fantastically sick wife, but I'm on a mission. Save a bit, upgrade, sell the old...repeat. (second hand, with new filters)

Education and facts are key, as is "seriousness" of ones endeavour.

When I started, it was just a Festool CT33 with new HEPA filters, then I added a dust deputy as I hated emptying the machine every 15 minutes. Then a 1hp with pleated and good 100mm hose, now a 2hp, still with the 100mm. It has an intake for 150mm.

A mate of mine has some 150mm he's not using, so I might be able to con him out of that

My next step is to build your "cabinet" with the impeller on top and the guts inside. It can live in the corner of the shed and vent it outside with a hatch when it's not freezing (I work late at night and shut the doors when it goes below 10....Canberra. Very cold here sometimes!)

Still looking for that link.....

Originally Posted by Evanism

I just upgraded from a 1hp to a 2, both have pleated filters.

The new 2hp is exceptional. It claims 1600 CFM, which is a lie, but man-o-man does it move some air compared to the 1hp.

The motor tests on the killawatt a full 1500 watts. Makes LOTS of noise. Cupboard needed!

The machines and workshop are cleaner by a huge factor.

Hi all,

Bob L - your comments noted.

Evanism - what brand / model of 2HP DC did you buy?.


Regards,

Alan

Originally Posted by Little Boxes

Evanism - what brand / model of 2HP DC did you buy?.

Its an incredibly generic one, second hand: https://www.tools4tradies.com.au/DUS...l?redirected=1

... with the pleated cartridge, which Hare and Forbes sell.

Its nothing special, but By Jove does it have some suction on it. I have no means of giving a figure, but its a very bloody sight stronger than ANY 2HP I've ever experienced.

Today I've starting doing some of BobL's Special Treatments on it. Cabinet next week.

Originally Posted by Evanism

Its nothing special, but By Jove does it have some suction on it. I have no means of giving a figure, but its a very bloody sight stronger than ANY 2HP I've ever experienced.

A few comments on the H&F generic pleated filter (PF) which certainly does improve the suction on any DC that it is attached to but I am somewhat concerned about how it does this.

When new, this filter is a relatively inefficient and along with a lot of air it also lets through a lot of fine dust - much more dust that a quality new needle felt bag does.
I haven't done a test on the PF but it takes a couple of hours of continuous use to condition a needle felt bag but because of the much greater surface area of filtration I would imagine it will take longer to condition the H&F PF.
This means running the DC with about a 10% sawdust load in it (preferably [venting]outside) otherwise you will be injecting a lot of fine dust into your shed.

The other thing that worries me about the H&F PF is what happens to it when it is cleaned. Most filters stay partially conditioned when cleaned and so will be back to fully filtering very quickly but I'm wondering if the H&F PF is just too porous and when cleaned goes back to being leaky.

Like flow rates for DC the specifications for PFS is very nebulous. They often just give a single value micron rating (e.g. 1 micron) but they do not say what the efficiency should be with and without conditioning. Almost certainly the values are for a conditioned filter but if it takes many hours of continuous use to condition the filter then all we adding is covering ourselves with more dust.

Now this problem more or less goes away if the DC vents outside.