Thread: Woodfast 3Hp 8 Inch Dual Bag?

I have a similar machine at the moment, you need to keep the collection bags empty to achieve figure close to the advertised 2800 cfm.

It is good for chip collection but not the finer dust.

Originally Posted by Albert

I have a similar machine at the moment, you need to keep the collection bags empty to achieve figure close to the advertised 2800 cfm. It is good for chip collection but not the finer dust.

No matter how clean the bags this machine (and no other current 3HP machine) will not deliver 2800 cfm. This figure will be based on single pressure readings of a naked impeller (ie no bags) in the middle of a short length of 8" duct. As soon as a cyclone or bags are added and real world 6" or 8" ducting and machinery are added the flow will drop markedly.If 6" ducting is used the most flow that is physically possible is ~1200 cfm. If 8" ducting is used the theoretical max based on Pressure is about 2600 cfm but the impeller is far too small and being single phase it runs at 50 (as opposed to 60) Hz to realize this flow. Then then adding bags, junctions and machines will drop that to less than 1400 cfm. You need to remember that a 4HP motor and a 15-16" impeller spinning a 60Hz are needed to generate ~2000 CFM.

Ok I hear you...

I had it in my head the "magic numbers" for fine dust were 8 inch and 6 inch ducts, 1000cfm at dust source & 4000 fps inside the ducts.

For $800 odd - this one 'SEEMS' to deliver the combination of magic numbers.... versus 3 times that for the CV & CVM.

I would love the CVM...and will eventually make or buy one.... but to get started.... budget is a consideration... for me at least at this point in time.

Even with all the losses factored in, this one seems to have the magic numbers - no?

Maybe (most likely) I'm missing something obvious again.... it wouldn't be the first time.

I was just thinking that essentially the ducting in 8 & 6 inch would be able to stay there when i upgrade to the CVM...so the $ invested into that wouldn't be wasted longer term was all. The sound factors for me just don't work with the CVM at the moment, based on the shire regulations which I've already posted previously - unless I make a muffler the same as that depicted in Corrimal Community Men's Shed link.

Corrimal Community Men's Shed Cyclone Dust Collection System - Automatic Blast Valves

I'm keen to make such a muffler - but can't help wondering if it couldn't be done easier with some kind of PVC outer and inner casings, etc - the mens shed one sure seems to work - it just seems like you need to be a group of NASA scientists all working together to make one - I can't see me doing it easily all on my pat malone let alone source all the various components locally. Remember that as a sheet metal worker I make a great carpenter.

I am hoping that eventuially the CVM will come with a plastic external cabinet nmade from recycled PET bottles the same as our wheelie bins, and a PVC muffler module cabinet that attaches to the outdoor cabinet, and a 3rd modular cabinet that takes a full sized wheelie bin.

I'm guessing it could be a while... but that would be an ideal mix n match one stop shop option...for those of us who don't want to buy an expensive cyclone, & then spend a lot of $ and time making it "fit" our shed setups / circumstances.

Things these days as you know Bob are largely plug and play solutions and as yet the CV & CVM aren't quite there IMHO - BUT in saying that I can see where they have come from with the BP site, so they have already come a long way from the original DIY 'make it yourself' plans and I don't think there's a long way to go.... hopefully.

Maybe I will think differently in time... its all part of the journey process for me, research, rationalization, equivocation, second guessing, then spitting the dummy and finally biting the bullet satisfied that I got the very best bang for the buck.

I've been known to be interested in a car - (Last one I bought was $82K) and walk into a car yard selling same - go to the spare parts department and ask for something small cheap and minor nature and when they give me the run round - take my cash elsewhere never telling them I was interested in buying the car out front.... Its a kind of "testing regime" I employ to find out if I really want to do business with a particular business. Some businesses I've dealt with for 20+ years... others get one go & fail to make the grade.

CV & CVM have great potential... IMHO. I can see it. Maybe I'll just kick the tyres a little longer.. first.

I'll get there eventually.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Ok I hear you...

I had it in my head the "magic numbers" for fine dust were 8 inch and 6 inch ducts, 1000cfm at dust source & 4000 fps inside the ducts.

The minimum flow rate is 1000 cfm at the dust source and 4000 cfm inside the ducting.

4000 fpm inside an 8" duct is a flow rate of 1400 cfm.
A 2 HP with a 12" impeller simply cannot pull more than about 1100 cfm and then in practice it is limited to about 900 cfm so hooking that up to 8" ducting will lead to dust drop out.
A 3HP on a naked 13" impeller can do ~1600 cfm, but in practice it is limited to about 1400 cfm. You might think this is OK but then start adding ducting, bags, machines and the flow rate drops well below 1400 and thus 8" pipe should not be used with the motor impeller combos.

Something I have heard about the 2HP Woodfast is that it is VERY noisy. I would then be concerned about their 3HP unit as well.

OK the penny's slowly dropping for me.

I've no idea about their noise levels yet, and that's a big consideration for me personally.

Only reason I look at Woodfast was that I had one of their 2hp single units for the 20 years at the factory so I googled them out of curiosity to see what they offered and then the magic series of numbers caught my eye....

Still tyre kicking at this stage as I make my journey for zen enlightenment.

At the Moment I could get hit by the 97 Zen bus and wouldn't see it coming!

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

OK the penny's slowly dropping for me.

I've no idea about their noise levels yet, and that's a big consideration for me personally.

Only reason I look at Woodfast was that I had one of their 2hp single units for the 20 years at the factory so I googled them out of curiosity to see what they offered and then the magic series of numbers caught my eye....

Still tyre kicking at this stage as I make my journey for zen enlightenment.

At the Moment I could get hit by the 97 Zen bus and wouldn't see it coming!

I dont think the extractor will make more noise than a planer planning through a piece of hard wood.... what machinery will you be using with the dust extactor?

I recently did a sound test with a sound meter for my equipment, I currently use a single phase 3hp, 2 up 2 down bag dust extractor, similar to this:


232758424_full.jpg

with the garage door down and standing at the boundary, the ambient dba was 45-50dba with nothing turned on, if I turn on the dust extractor, the reading reaches 50-55dba, if I plan through a piece of hard wood with dust extractor turn on, the reading is about 75-80dba. the boundary point I used was about 15m to the machines.

hope this helps...

Albert that helps heaps believe it or not...

It gives me a ball park figure to work on whereas I'd have just been guessing coz I have no way that I know of to measure it myself. (There's probably an app on a smart phone for it these days but I'm not smart enough to master a smart phone).

I'll just be using the Robland Combination - and the planer / thicknesser will make the most noise of course - specially on hardwoods. Eventually a helical (shelix) head from Byrd will fix that hopefully....to within acceptable levels. So if the dusty is also within acceptable levels, hopefully I won't drive the neighbors to distraction so much they complain to the shire health section...

I've a ways to go with sound proofing the shed yet - it's all a slow work in progress... my own personal zen journey so to speak.

I'm looking forward to be able to make noise in there without worrying tho - eventually - for the moment I just try to do stuff in the middle of the day wherever I can hopefully when the neighbors are at work.

So far it's working but the 3 phase power to run the machine has only been connected a couple days and thus far I've only made 2 quick saw cuts with the machine...so I haven't pushed the good neighbor boundary's too far yet.

Thanks heaps for that assistance tho... I hope I can return the favor.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Albert that helps heaps believe it or not...

It gives me a ball park figure to work on whereas I'd have just been guessing coz I have no way that I know of to measure it myself. (There's probably an app on a smart phone for it these days but I'm not smart enough to master a smart phone).

I'll just be using the Robland Combination - and the planer / thicknesser will make the most noise of course - specially on hardwoods. Eventually a helical (shelix) head from Byrd will fix that hopefully....to within acceptable levels. So if the dusty is also within acceptable levels, hopefully I won't drive the neighbors to distraction so much they complain to the shire health section...

I've a ways to go with sound proofing the shed yet - it's all a slow work in progress... my own personal zen journey so to speak.

I'm looking forward to be able to make noise in there without worrying tho - eventually - for the moment I just try to do stuff in the middle of the day wherever I can hopefully when the neighbors are at work.

So far it's working but the 3 phase power to run the machine has only been connected a couple days and thus far I've only made 2 quick saw cuts with the machine...so I haven't pushed the good neighbor boundary's too far yet.

Thanks heaps for that assistance tho... I hope I can return the favor.

I am using a Robland Combi too, mine comes with Tersa block, it is relatively quiet but when i put a 200mm wide kwila through....the noise is so loud i am sure noise control will show up if i do it for more than 5 minutes. I did enquire about the upgrade to helical cutter block later but was told its too costly.

I only have single phase at the mo, once i decided to add the wide belt sander i will get 3 phase installed.

Ok another Robland user.

I priced a 310mm wide shelix head from Byrd in the US for the Robland X31 combination - and it was a few $ over $1000, plus a couple hundred freight to get it here.

Of course you'd probably fit new bearings etc at the same time so I am guessing the way the Oz Pacific peso is plummeting against the Greenback, that bye the time I can afford it - it will be closer to $1500.00.

I don't know if its any help to you, but there's a Robland Users email group on Yahoo.... and also I have a facebook page up and running for Robland X26 & X31 users as well, that your more than welcome to post up on anytime you like.

Link ; https://www.facebook.com/RoblandX26X...x_wizard=true#

Maybe bookmark it for future reference.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Ok I hear you...

I had it in my head the "magic numbers" for fine dust were 8 inch and 6 inch ducts, 1000cfm at dust source & 4000 fps inside the ducts.

For $800 odd - this one 'SEEMS' to deliver the combination of magic numbers.... versus 3 times that for the CV & CVM.

I would love the CVM...and will eventually make or buy one.... but to get started.... budget is a consideration... for me at least at this point in time.

Even with all the losses factored in, this one seems to have the magic numbers - no?

Maybe (most likely) I'm missing something obvious again.... it wouldn't be the first time.

I was just thinking that essentially the ducting in 8 & 6 inch would be able to stay there when i upgrade to the CVM...so the $ invested into that wouldn't be wasted longer term was all. The sound factors for me just don't work with the CVM at the moment, based on the shire regulations which I've already posted previously - unless I make a muffler the same as that depicted in Corrimal Community Men's Shed link.

Corrimal Community Men's Shed Cyclone Dust Collection System - Automatic Blast Valves

I'm keen to make such a muffler - but can't help wondering if it couldn't be done easier with some kind of PVC outer and inner casings, etc - the mens shed one sure seems to work - it just seems like you need to be a group of NASA scientists all working together to make one - I can't see me doing it easily all on my pat malone let alone source all the various components locally. Remember that as a sheet metal worker I make a great carpenter.

I am hoping that eventuially the CVM will come with a plastic external cabinet nmade from recycled PET bottles the same as our wheelie bins, and a PVC muffler module cabinet that attaches to the outdoor cabinet, and a 3rd modular cabinet that takes a full sized wheelie bin.

I'm guessing it could be a while... but that would be an ideal mix n match one stop shop option...for those of us who don't want to buy an expensive cyclone, & then spend a lot of $ and time making it "fit" our shed setups / circumstances.

Things these days as you know Bob are largely plug and play solutions and as yet the CV & CVM aren't quite there IMHO - BUT in saying that I can see where they have come from with the BP site, so they have already come a long way from the original DIY 'make it yourself' plans and I don't think there's a long way to go.... hopefully.

Maybe I will think differently in time... its all part of the journey process for me, research, rationalization, equivocation, second guessing, then spitting the dummy and finally biting the bullet satisfied that I got the very best bang for the buck.

I've been known to be interested in a car - (Last one I bought was $82K) and walk into a car yard selling same - go to the spare parts department and ask for something small cheap and minor nature and when they give me the run round - take my cash elsewhere never telling them I was interested in buying the car out front.... Its a kind of "testing regime" I employ to find out if I really want to do business with a particular business. Some businesses I've dealt with for 20+ years... others get one go & fail to make the grade.

CV & CVM have great potential... IMHO. I can see it. Maybe I'll just kick the tyres a little longer.. first.

I'll get there eventually.

The points you make are valid points. It is unfortunate that the CV series cannot be supplied in an even easier assembly form. The problems arise when it comes to paying for transport. Transport companies calculate freight based on a mythical standard weight per cubic metre. In australia I have been quoted various rates from 150kg per cubic meter to 500kg. What this means is that if you pack the goods as assembled the kit containing the impeller and housing and other parts would not be charged at 17.24kg as it is now but at at least double because of the increased size.

Again if we supplied cabinets the delivery alone would make them exorbitantly expensive. But keep watching sooner or later we will find a solution.

Shedman

Ikea have it all sorted - DIY assemble it yourself flat pack.
The external PET cabinets for the CV (and CVM), the Muffler enclosure, and the Wheelie bin enclosure, could all come flat packed as 4 sides, a lid and stand / bottom. Maybe the muffler could be designed in two halves that fit together but transport inside the CV cyclone part...
Where there's a will there's a way!