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5th July 2012, 03:31 PM #1Senior Member
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All in one workbench / dust separator / dust collector
If I would have known how much of an issue dust collection was going to be when I built my work bench I would have incorporated it in the design (had I actually had a design for the work bench).
Since I haven’t yet finalised my work bench I am actually thinking about redesign it to include everything in the thread title.
One of the problems I face that I am sure many of you out there face the same thing and that is a severe shortage of space. While it would be great to have a solution that takes up half a shed I just don’t have the space, in fact these days I am flat out getting my motorbike into the shed, so I need a solution that is compact enough and simple enough that I can wheel it outside to work when I need it, and wheel it back in when done.
Below is a modified photo of what I think might work…
I would need to fabricate some kind of round cyclone section, but that shouldn’t be too hard and using the cut out in the table top I could easily duct the sawdust into the drop chute that would go into the inlet of the cyclone.
I would leave just enough room above the cyclone to exit the pipe behind the drop chute to the other side where the dust collector would provide the draw through.
To make things even safer I could run a duct pipe away from the work area to deposit the mildly dusty air on the grass (or even a bucket / filter of sorts)
I figure using such a big drop chute with a BBQ like range hood lid that pointed towards the work bench it should do a fairly decent job of catching dust around the work area. In addition I could use a second flexible hose that came over the top of the bench top to grab anything the drop chute does get.
Any thoughts on this crazy idea?
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5th July 2012, 04:19 PM #2.
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If you are using this bench outside I would just buy a big pedestal fan and run that when you are using it. It will be reasonably effective and save you a lot of money and headaches.
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5th July 2012, 05:11 PM #3Senior Member
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Very tempted to go that way... but I would like to collect the dust if possible simply to save the large amount of time I spend sweeping up after every time I use the power tools.
Until early next year I am in a rented split house, so I need to consider my immediate neighbour for mess and noise. There is concrete everywhere, so I cant even hide the mess in the grass.
So for the time being collection is a better option, even if it doesn't offer the greatest dust protection.
Putting the filter aspect aside for a moment, what do you think of the idea of making the work bench into an all in one?
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5th July 2012, 05:42 PM #4.
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Fair enough.
[quote]So for the time being collection is a better option, even if it doesn't offer the greatest dust protection.[QUOTE]
If you just want to collect sawdust then a cheap vacuum cleaner (VC) or DC is all you will need, the invisible stuff goes straight through these but being outside it would represent a reduced risk and being invisible the neighbours won't see it. I would punt for a cheap DC over a cheap VC. The DC might not pickup quite so much of the chips from a power tool compared to a cheap VC but the DC can be used later inside a shed and easily vented outside the shed. A VC cannot effectively vent a shed.
Putting the filter aspect aside for a moment, what do you think of the idea of making the work bench into an all in one?
A few things to bear in mind
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Small cyclones and trashcan separators rob more sucking power from a DC than small bag type filters.
A small std 30 micron clean bag uses 2.5" pressure whereas small cyclones require 4.5" of pressure.
When the small bag gets dirty then the pressure required can increases to more than that required for a small cyclone.
Small cyclones will filter to better than 30 microns but if you are venting outside (depending on how close your neighbours are) it doesn't really matter.
Small are useful for people who do not want to clean bags.
Larger well designed cyclones require about the same pressure as std bags but of course filter correspondingly much better than bags.
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5th July 2012, 08:38 PM #5Senior Member
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Ok lets give the idea a bit of proportion... This is what the individual items look like by themselves. Now remembering that I can get the work bench in the garage and little else.
The DC in the picture does down to 5 micron so that should be a reasonable level of filtering. Carba-Tec® 2hp Economy Extractor : CARBA-TEC
Moves 1200 CFM of air, has 2HP, and weighs 47 Kgs (need to move this in and out of shed every time)
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5th July 2012, 08:48 PM #6.
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In that case I would forget the cyclone, leave the DC as is and get a outdoor gas heater cover or double mattress plastic bag so you can cover and leave the DC in one piece and outside.
BTW when connected to a real system that DC will not move 1200 cfm even with 6" ducting
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5th July 2012, 09:16 PM #7Senior Member
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Here's a rough idea of what it might look like as an integrated unit. I have used the same images as in the first post, but rearranged then to show that nothing would have to be drastically reduced, just remade.
The intake would be roughly 1-2 feet long from the hole in the table to the cyclone and could be as big as would practically fit (possibly even bigger than 6"), and the DC pump would sit at the wheel end of the workbench, so there would be a lot of mechanical advantage when lifted via the handles.
Because the cyclone would extract the bulk of the sawdust a smaller collection bucket could be used and the filter would stay clean longer, mean less cost and a longer period where it filtered better...
When finished the filter could be put on top of the table and wheeled inside.
Could also line the cabinet with some acoustic dampening material to keep the noise down and keep the neighbours happy.
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5th July 2012, 09:51 PM #8.
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If you are outside and determined to use the cyclone you won't need a filter.
If you plan on using the filter then I don't see why you need to use the cyclone. OK it will keep the filter clean for longer but at the cost of reducing the DCs maximum sucking power. The under bench design also seriously aerodynamically compromises the DC flow because the connecting ducting bends will be too tight. Ducting radii of curvature of the bends should be a large as possible, at least 2.5 x the diam of the pipe i.e. for 150 mm pipe it should be 375 mm.
What's wrong with leaving the DC outside? You can chain it to a big block of concrete if you are worried about it being nicked.
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6th July 2012, 01:12 PM #9Senior Member
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I am also trying to plan for down the track as well, so while I am currently outside that hopefully won’t always be the way.
But down the track there is a good chance that the filter section will reside outside of the shed, preferably not the motor and pump which will be more susceptible moisture damage even if covered up.
A two second redesign and I believe I could do away with any need for either top entry and exit points, allowing better use of the height.
This is a basic concept that might be used. It would still use the basic principles on the Thien design but both entry and exit would be via the side.
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7th July 2012, 01:35 PM #10.
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I wouldn't be concerned about external location, I've had DC's outside for 5 years without any problems. Ask Sydney members if they have had any probs.
A two second redesign and I believe I could do away with any need for either top entry and exit points, allowing better use of the height.
With externally located DC's, all that is needed is an an unrestricted straight run to the DC as possible and avoid flex wherever possible.
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7th July 2012, 09:38 PM #11Senior Member
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Redid the table closer to scale... After a bit more designing I can do the outlet with only one 90 degree bend and with shorter pipework (less than a meter) to the DC, which should keep the negative pressure / flow higher in the cyclone. Only problem at the moment is working out a way to empty the tray below.
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8th July 2012, 02:39 PM #12
This design wont work, dirt will build up around the outlet pipe in the upper section and flow into the fan unit. There is no need for the baffle if you are making a cyclone. Colin Thein designed the baffle for commercial chip separators, their design caused the dirt to be sucked into the vacuum when they were about quarter full.
The fan unit doesn't have to be vertical, it can be mounted directly above the cyclone removing any bends in the airflow. The inlet to the cyclone is positioned to cause the airflow in the cyclone to be in the same direction as the fan rotation.Arie.
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8th July 2012, 09:55 PM #13Senior Member
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The design isn't complete as it is missing the hat that would go on top (think hat on chimney) should stop any direct dirt entering. The more I look at it the more I am thinking that the fan shouldn't be in the work bench either. Quickly losing the appeal of an integrated solution leaning back towards separate components. But that is the point of the thread just to kick the idea around.
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8th July 2012, 10:37 PM #14
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8th July 2012, 11:05 PM #15.
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