Thread: Jack Brabham's Formula 1, BT19.

Originally Posted by bj383ss

Greg this is just fantastic! I have a front row seat and will be waiting with anticipation for each installment. I understand you wanting to chrome the brass but how will you accomplish that? Im curious on the process. Love the fact that you are working from a photo. Keep the pics coming. Bret

Oi!!! How did you beat Crowie to a front row seat!!

Outstanding detail there Greg!!! A real tribute to the car and its builder driver.!!!!!

BTW: be very careful converting that gas bottle. Hate to hear of a flying Mutawintji!!!

Originally Posted by artme

Oi!!! How did you beat Crowie to a front row seat!!

I'm not always first...
I sometimes actually forget to look ,
if I've been out or been busy helping the boss....lol...Cheers.....

Originally Posted by nine fingers

Muthwintji, I love your work and attention to detail, but as you are crafting a wooden model , I know the brass injector throats will be a feature of the motor, but why not a prime piece of huon polished to a golden colour. Wooden models are all wood! cheers John.

Hi John ... This is a tough question. I don't know that I am articulate enough to provide a satisfactory answer.

Somewhere there is a song by Marty Robbins (gunfighter ballads ?) where the character in the song has got into deep trouble an he says, 'I heard the master call my name'

When I read your post, I heard the master call my name .. Haa.

I think I joined the forum just as you finished the Rolls Royce .. I couldn't believe it .. Here was a forum that had scale modeling in wood and of a standard that took my breath away. Bonnet hinges out of wood.

There is no doubt that you are right.

I could argue that brass and wood are traditional partners. Colin Clenton tools and nearly all woodwork tools. All pens. All clocks, etc. so they do go together. But this defense would be side stepping and bulls*** !

My real reason is I need the brass for the engineering that mostly won't be seen. The weakest links in the vehicle I tested and they failed. I did this before I started the actual build. So I then redesigned with hidden strength. It had to be brass, or the wood had to be increased in dimension to the point where it broke scale unacceptably (to me)

Try as I could, would, I knew that that some parts brass would be visible. So I determined to 'feature' some of it. I suppose you could say I'm hiding it by putting it in full view .. Duz that make sense ? By putting it in an obvious place the 'observer's eye is distracted from the rest ? (I know what I mean, but difficult to express)

If you look at the extractor pipes on the real vehicle they are huge compared to the injector volutes (2nd photo, 1st post). They will be in wood. They are much bigger and much more apparent than the injector throats. So its not a matter of selling out but trying to incorporate a feature that must be there in some shape anyway.

I am very conscious that a little bit can go a long way, and easily too far .. So far those volutes are eight pieces visible in each engine ... And there are already 78 pieces in the 30% completed engine. Each engine will go 200 pieces plus. The suspension will go double that ... At the moment those volutes seem 'front and centre' in the photo, but there is much more to come and they will recede into the background ( I hope) The vehicle will be around 600mm long. Each volute is only 8mm wide and 20mm high ..

As well, I am very inexperienced in wood and must learn as I go ... And that extra fineness is beyond me at the moment. No way could I build those tiny volutes in wood ... It took me two days just to build the elbows and they didn't have to be hollowed out.

Hope this sorta makes sense ??

Ta for the kind words. Coming from the builder of the Rolls Royce, high praise indeed and welcome.


Greg

Hello Greg. First I just want to say how awesome you build notes are. The photography is outstanding. It shows that you have a passion for it. I know how hard it is to document when you are in the heat of building. Its a PITA sometimes. But it is very enjoyable to your viewers. And pictures can say a thousand words you don't have to type. LOL. For someone who is just starting out you are doing a fantastic job. Isn't it funny how hard it is to make dowels? And you used a cross slide. I had the same problem. The Headstock and tailstock have to be absolutely centered with each other. It seems simple but sometimes its not. As far as your progress and time spent of 32 hours. What you accomplished isn't bad. Its all very small and detailed work. Keep the pics and build notes coming. As far as the brass wood debate here is my .02. My train had some brass parts that I could have made out of wood but I thought the brass added character to it. My Scania truck on the other hand I wanted to be all wood. And it is except for the two bonnet hinges and the front window. Don't want to open a can of worms. I understand why you are using brass. In the end this model is for you so make it how you want. GIT R DONE. Sorry about my paragraph for some reason I can't use the return key on this forum. Bret

Greg, when I pulled up my chair I had a feeling this would be a good build.
I am super impressed that you redid the injector tubes, and I really hope this set works the way they need to.
In my opinion the first ones were off, but a lot of people wouldn't have noticed or probably cared.
It's "just a toy" comes to mind.
As an enthusiast I look forward to seeing them mounted on the block and looking the goods.
I dont mind they are brass not wood either, I don't believe the best turners on the forum could produce a wooden equivalent that looked "correct" to the correct scale. There are also eight to make!!!!
Keep up the great work.
Cheers, Ian

Bret ... So funny ... You probably won't believe ... But I download your pics ... Blow them up to 200% and check your joints ... and then I have a standard to meet ... Haa ... I wonder duz anyone else do this ?

If i can equal my pics to yours I know I'm right !!!

hope you don't mind me cheetin ...


cheers ... Greg

Originally Posted by Nanigai

I am super impressed that you redid the injector tubes, and I really hope this set works the way they need to.

In my opinion the first ones were off, but a lot of people wouldn't have noticed or probably cared.

Ian ... So glad you said this. Gives me confidence. The first ones rose too high in the vertical and too 'stumpy' on the angle ...my thoughts .. And now you have confirmed ...

These ones are not in place yet ... So here iz hopin. But they look much better hand held in position. Please keep this criticism coming ... Appreciated and needed

Greg

G'Day Greg, Keep enjoying the build rather than being prefect in every aspect of the project, just my tuppence worth....Cheers, crowie

Originally Posted by crowie

G'Day Greg, Keep enjoying the build rather than being prefect in every aspect of the project, just my tuppence worth....Cheers, crowie

Yeah ... I know that feeling. When I finished the little boat I could see so many flaws in it, I was p***** off. Threw it in the cupboard. My mum (80) rescued it, took it away, bought it back in a month ... And I was overjoyed to see it. So funny, you can get too close and no longer see the object, just the mistakes.

cool bananas ... Greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

Yeah ... I know that feeling. When I finished the little boat I could see so many flaws in it, I was p***** off. Threw it in the cupboard. My mum (80) rescued it, took it away, bought it back in a month ... And I was overjoyed to see it. So funny, you can get too close and no longer see the object, just the mistakes.

cool bananas ... Greg

Yeah, Greg, we all suffer from this, but your Mum saw through it with the boat.
Brownie points for her.

This is coming along really well. Brilliant work, mate.

And I agree with the others regarding the brass/timber issue. Whatever you feel looks good is right. There is no right and wrong in this regard as far as I'm concerned. Some work in all wood, some work in all metal, some work in both.
Keep up the great work. I'm loving this build.
(I'll bet Jack Brabham himself would love to see this when finished.)

And one for luck.

Hi Greg have just finished reading your project and its been a pleasure to follow the build ,Great workmanship and fantastic detail so far, I will be with the others on a front seat to see the work in progress would never of dreamed of building that race car in wood,fantastic effort .

Eddie

Thank you TKO for nice comments.

Greg

UPDATE: 4

I had guests this weekend and so did not get much time. The pub and general store are 20klm away and so brekky, lunch and dinner are down to me and my partner. So while all were sleeping sat morn I snuck out to the shed and got a liddle bit done.

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

.
.
But ... they are all exactly 20mm long, exactly 42deg, and the 'planes are in alignment (+/- 0.1mm) ... But in any case, once they are fixed to the inlet manifold I can 'long-board them into alignment. So there is some room for small error.

Despite this vain and rash boast above ... when they were actually lined up on the manifold a glaring mistake became obvious. Its true that they were all 20mm length overall, and the planes were mostly in line. But I had measured overall, and the elbow joints were all over the place.

So, nothing for it but to re-measure from the inner elbow joint down on the perpendicular and realign them all. I had left plenty of 'meat' so no real big problem. But very worrying because it shows a lack of foresight which I will definitely need as the build progresses.

You can see how far out of line the elbows are here. They are only sitting on the manifold and not lined up in 'plane'.

The measurements clearly tell my oversight !!



I resanded all the verticals, not worrying about the angle ends as they will be 'long-boarded' into plane and size when the verticals are epoxied on the manifold.



The small 'grip-marks' are from a pair of 'artery forceps' which I seem to have acquired somewhere along the way. But they are excellent for holding small pieces up to the 12" sander face. The marks will have to be sanded out.



I drilled holes in the approx spots that the injector pipes will be placed. Not too accurate as they will not be seen. But when filled with epoxy they will form a chemical pin attached and supporting the whole cantilevered injector body.




And now .... nervously ... no going back .... they are epoxied onto the manifolds.








There is some very slight mis-alignment, and they are now down to about 11mm length overall ..... but the fish-eye lens is millimetres from contact with the engine and any flaw is greatly exaggerated by the lens.

As well the shorter body length is definitely an improvement in the scale appearance .. so .. all clouds have a silver lining.

I won't get back to it for another two-weeks now ... sigh .... then it will be long boarded and next step ... distributor and fuel pump.

Hope you enjoy ......... Greg (sorry so slow)