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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    199

    Default Building new men shed (hopefully)

    Hi Everyone,

    Seeking help / advise / for the brains trust on here.

    As with many sheds the words you don't want to here -- You need to relocate. Well those words fell on our shed last September. Not going to bore you with the last what seems forever to where we are now.

    If all goes well we are looking at building a new shed. That, in itself is a huge task, however basics construction of a shed is a no brainier, one of the discussions is running power to the machines. We have 7 - 8 machines with 3 phase, a few 15 amp and the rest 10 amp. The 3 phase machine and some PP running to benches there is discussion to run the power under the slab bring power up next to the machine / benches. If you know exactly where the tools are going its not so bad, however I'm convinced Murphy's law will want to come out an play and I can see a concrete cutting machine being involved and extra $$$.

    Anyway I'm wondering what have other sheds done in relation to installing power to their respective machines. At the end of the day it will all come down to good planning and communication on our part if we elect to go under slab. One of the many fun and games ahead.


    Brian

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    6,957

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    I had an electrician here doing some work on my house renovations and he was in my shed where I have overhead power points. He commented that in floor GPO's are not legal these days for what that is worth and note I live in NSW so NT could be different. I would make the power supply as accessible as possible and run it all in trays and conduit which saves a lot of agravation and money when things get changed as they will.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    25,748

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    The under floor idea for a workshop has LOTS of problems especially of there are any chances for liquids, grit, sawdust and $hyte to get into them, not to mention tripping over the bastards.

    Flying fox / suspended on SS wires extension cords are much better

    We have two 14m long flying fox wires in the WW, and 2 6m long ones in the MW areas of our mens shed - they stretch right across the room in parallel about 3.5m above the floor. Each wire has a suspended HD extension cord that comes out from each end and are connected to GPOs on the walls. This provides 4 separate OH connections in both teh WW and MW areas but there would be nothing to prevent several drop downs GPOs from each cable being used.

    We also have 3 suspended 3P sockets on separate drop downs.

    I have about 20 OH sockets in my own shed and they are the most heavy used of all my sockets. These are mounted on a truss that runs down the middle of the shed and I can just reach the bottom off the truss where the sockets are usually mounted.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Alexandra Vic
    Age
    66
    Posts
    2,677

    Default

    Keep your power runs above floor level, rather than under concrete, and you can change layouts etc as needs change, new equipment appears etc. Drops from the ceiling/trusses etc are a lot more flexible way to get power to machines that are away from the wall.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Shepparton
    Posts
    344

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    I agree with the above statements I have probably rearranged my shed at least three times and if I had underfloor power I couldn't have shifted my machines so go for the wire and dropdown points you won't be sorry

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
    Age
    66
    Posts
    11,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian45 View Post
    Seeking help / advise / for the brains trust on here.

    As with many sheds the words you don't want to here -- You need to relocate. Well those words fell on our shed last September. Not going to bore you with the last what seems forever to where we are now.

    If all goes well we are looking at building a new shed. That, in itself is a huge task, however basics construction of a shed is a no brainier, one of the discussions is running power to the machines. We have 7 - 8 machines with 3 phase, a few 15 amp and the rest 10 amp. The 3 phase machine and some PP running to benches there is discussion to run the power under the slab bring power up next to the machine / benches. If you know exactly where the tools are going its not so bad, however I'm convinced Murphy's law will want to come out an play and I can see a concrete cutting machine being involved and extra $$$.

    Anyway I'm wondering what have other sheds done in relation to installing power to their respective machines. At the end of the day it will all come down to good planning and communication on our part if we elect to go under slab. One of the many fun and games ahead.
    Brian
    If i recall correctly, your current shed is a disused fire station?

    For your new shed I suggest it be designed and constructed as an INDUSTRIAL building.
    I know that Men's Sheds are typically not covered by industrial hygiene laws and OH&S requirements, but you are starting from scratch so to speak.

    Building a new shed is not a "no brainer". Even if just the basics.
    First off, will the construction utilise tilt-up construction techniques or a portal frame or stick frame (I would not recommend timber stick framing (even if you utilise treated wood for the frame) to anyone building a shed).
    Then there's the choices about cladding and insulation and air con / humidity control and whether the "tea room" has a separate air cooling to the main part of the shed. ETC.


    Power supply.
    Go full-on industrial. Cable trays, conduit drops, etc.
    Try and run the 3 phase throughout whatever building you end up with. There's electrical guides on balancing loads across a 3 phase supply. Follow them.
    And go for cabling capable of supporting the maximum power demand of you shed. Although initially expensive, copper is very cheap compared to running new cables in an existing shed.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    25,748

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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Power supply.
    Go full-on industrial. Cable trays, conduit drops, etc.
    Try and run the 3 phase throughout whatever building you end up with. There's electrical guides on balancing loads across a 3 phase supply. Follow them.
    And go for cabling capable of supporting the maximum power demand of you shed. Although initially expensive, copper is very cheap compared to running new cables in an existing shed.
    That's the approach we took in our building design which was largely paid for and hence is under (formally) the control of the local council.

    During the endless round of planning meetings with the council we asked for 23, 3P sockets, 6 x 32A and the remaining as 20A. Without discussion the council engineering dept cut that to a total of 6 and that include the 2 power points for the ACs. We appealed and had devil of a time to get 13 - well 11 really as 2 were for ACs. Even to get these we had to forgo several cosmetic things to the building to stay within budget. We didn't care about cosmetics but the council appointed architect fought us tooth and nail for "spoiling the look of the building"

    Then we asked for 4 of 3P sockets to be suspended from the ceiling the council engineer raised all sorts of objections and finally took us aside and said "look I will let you and the contracted sparky sort that out during the building phase". This proved to be an invaluable approach as we were able to make sure we got the specific locations we wanted.

    Not long after that 2 sparkies joined the shed and one (and experienced industrial sparky who still holds a current licence) has moved many power points and installed a few more.

    The other things we asked for was an external 1 x 3m concrete pad to locate the DC and compressor but we didn't tell them we were going to build an enclosure on in as we knew that would raise more objections about the look of the building by the architect, We built that after we occupied the building. Well eventually the architect dis find out and all hell broke loose but one of our members being a former Mayor of council guided us through how to apply for a retrospective approval.

    DCE1.jpg

    Initially we were absolutely not permitted to construct (not even a fence or any extra paving) or store anything outside the building. After several break ins we got the fence and over the years we now have a 40ft container, a series large outdoor storage sheds, an outdoor metal working area, a community garden and a BBQ/social area which has proved invaluable during these times when we have to socially distance.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    199

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    You recall well. It will be an industrial shed, all walls and roof will be insulated and some walls facing workshops will be sound proofed. While we do try to maintain a clean environment we could do more, mind you the installation of our dust extractor helped this and all sanding was taken out side the workshop. 3 phase will run to all workshop locations. The frame will be steel no timber used apart from red tongue flooring for mezzanine areas and maybe ply on some walls for hanging tools etc. Office, training / meals, 3D printing and kitchen will be air con and will be stand alone units, rooms will also have fans. Of course we have a HUGE amount of logistic and planning to get to this stage. First step hopefully we will know in a couple of weeks. Fun time ahead.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    199

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    Well a bit of an update. Our plans to build received a big set back a few week ago. The land that was earmarked for us was taken out from under us as the council decided to re propose the land for development by the council. Therefore we missed out, so we are on the hunt again. This is so bloody frustrating and our membership has now reduced by 60 - 70% and no light at the end of the tunnel.

    I guess one has to simply reset and push forward something will happen and we can then focus again on the prize.

    Anyway will give an further updates when I learn more.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    393

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    Can sympathise with you Brian45. We`ve just spent the past 14 months playing political ping-pong with our Council re relocation as once they found out our shed which they own was deemed unsafe they shut it down. Many hundreds of phone calls/letters etc to just about any pollie who had a remotest idea or those who understood what MensSheds are all about have fallen on deaf ears. We think its due to certain councilor who spun them a yarn or two.We also spoke in depth with ParksWildlife who own various vacant sheds/buildings/workshops in our area to no avail either.Oddly enough most surrounding towns have a MensShed. We don`t want to amalgamate as we feel our town is unique & should & can operate on its own. We have a population of around 1600 people,much more than surrounding areas.Ironically when our Shed was operating we were given through Govt grants sufficient funds to purchase some $15.000 worth of machinery/tools on top of existing quality machinery/tools. If were able to obtain a block of land we would be given a grant for a new shed/slab/electricals/plumbing etc. Crazily enough our Council gave us the job of maintaining our Pioneers Cemetery, a massive block containing hundreds of graves which one could barely recognise from dense undergrowth before we pretty much cleared painstakingly as every stone/rock/pieces of glass had to be sifted through to make sure it belonged or not to a surrounding grave. One of the graves is that of a Nurse who treated patients through the SpanishFlu & caught it herself. You`d think from our work there that it would enforce the Council to find us a suitable land or building but not to be.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    199

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    Well, 17 mths have passed and an untold number of meetings with various government representatives, council and the community bodies. The stress and frustration is now just part of the process and we are no closer to identifying a location to go. Our current exit date is the end of March 2021, unless we can get another extension. The only progress forward is we know a host of locations where we cannot or unable to go.

    Next week we have a meeting with the minister, if nothing of substance comes of this our options will be very limited and we will be forced to consider our position and the future of our shed.

    Anyway I will provide another update hopefully soon.

    Brian

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