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  1. #1
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    Default Induction Men Shed

    I’m just wondering after reading a few posts. Some shed do an induction session, I would like to know what you do or is there a form you fill out and what you cover. Has anyone got a form or list so I can look at this for our shed.

    Brian

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  3. #2
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    I'm not a member of a Mens Shed, but I volunteer at the Local Day Centre that has a Woodworking Shed.
    We have just about every machine that a well equiped home workshop would have. There was an incident where someone cut the back of their hand by doing something stupid, on a drop saw.
    Now all volunteers are required to do an online Training Course from 'OnGuard®' Safety Training - making sense of workplace training in schools - skills training for students, teachers and trainers working in secondary schools, (Pretty sure that this is it.) yearly. Also we have in place machinery inspections, that are done quarterly, any breakdowns, repairs etc. are also noted. Should an incedent happen, then there is a paper trail.
    From conversations with out Volunteer Co-ordinator the package was $300, and covers all types of machinery, you select the types required, and the programme covers them. It is based on school students requirements, but sometimes you need to go back to basics. This would cover anyone wanting to use the machinery, regardless of prior knowledge on the use of said machines.
    We had one client that has machinery at home, who took off a couple of fingers, not once but twice. He was allowed in the shed but could not use any machinery, because of his history, he didn't like that, so he left. He was given a good induction of what he can and cannot do, a thorough instruction on the use of the machines he wanted to use, and was signed off as being competent, as are all persons using any machines.
    Some people might think this is over the top, but it's better than being closed down for good.
    There should be better information from https://mensshed.org/wp-content/uplo...ition-2015.pdf pages 28 and 29 cover the nessecary Induction Process
    I hope this is what you were after.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  4. #3
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    Kyrn, I would like to know more about your Local Day Centre....
    this for kids? people all ages?
    what else is provided/available to do?
    would it be along the lines of sanemakerspace.com.... your ever in north east of Adelaide (Holden Hill) check this place out
    I would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds

  5. #4
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    The link provided by Kryn does not provide many specific details about induction - what it does is point you to how to obtain this document
    AMSA_1_Complete_Mens_Shed_Health_and_Safety_Manual
    I think your shed has to be a member of AMSA fr you to obtain it.

    In that document there 6+ very useful pages and several forms that relate to induction
    There is an initial sign up form
    A skills assessment form
    An induction check list/form
    And a form for management record of safety instruction

    The induction checklist is useful because it provides some indication of how to conduct an induction.
    The processes appear to be all one way ie supervise to inductee - I'd like to see more engagement of the inductee in the process.
    Nowhere does there appear to be a practical assessment of a new new members incoming skills.

    The induction I received was a 5 minutes interview by a supervisor - absolutely nothing about the gear, SOP or safety.
    The inductions I have seen other new members undertake range from 20 to 90 minutes of supervisors talking at a new member.
    There are few opportunities for new members to engage and nothing that actually tests a members skill.
    The length of the induction seems to depend on the experience of the new member with more experienced new members getting the short version.
    A new member can make all sorts of experiential claims but none appear to be tested.

    I like the idea of on-line assessments but am not all that convinced by their effectiveness although they are better than nothing as they do require new members to think and engage with SOPs which is useful.
    A better practical assessment is a practical test ie to ask a new member to Cut this piece of wood in half, Drill this hole etc.
    I realize this may be insulting to so called high skilled persons but how else can it be done? Wait for them to cut a digit or injury another member?

  6. #5
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies. Our shed is affiliated with AMSA so will chase that document up. With our new machinery looking to arrive in a month, I’m getting nervous. Had a situation not so long back, the person been shown how to use the gear, I was helping someone else and heard the change in tone from the machine, a noise and bang. I look back and he looks at me, and I said that kicked back didn’t it and where’s the timber now (side wall), I said a number of things after that. He was bloody lucky he was not hurt, no push stick etc etc etc.

    In the end no amount of induction / training will prevent people doing silly things, however it may lesson how hard WHS kick you in the jazz’s crackers if something happens.

    I thought retirement was relaxing lol.

  7. #6
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    One of the problems with places such as Mens Sheds is getting people out of the mindset that's it's a Play Day place, or a place where you can just "muck around".
    Once something like a proper Mens Shed is in operation, everyone who joins should be made aware that it's the equivalent of a work place, and work place rules and regulations have to apply.
    There simply has to be structures in place to handle dissent and arguments, regulations that cover machine use, oversight of dangerous operations, and some kind of competency testing.
    There has to be enforceable organisation, without people just "doing their own thing".
    As a mate said to me years ago, after a paddock fire where every local turned up with their equipment, and started doing their own thing, with no organisation; "It's a nightmare trying to organise volunteers".
    Members of any Shed have to be made aware they are joining an organisation, and the equivalent of workplace organisation is a major requirement of the Shed.

  8. #7
    Join Date
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    At the Shed I attend, the induction is in two parts. There is a general induction which is pretty informal and covers the things a new man needs to know - where things are, toilets, first aid, coffee... you get the drift. This general induction can be carried out by any experienced member and is mostly 'talking at'. The separate workshop safety induction is carried out by one of the workshop supervisors, who explain the safety procedure (very simple) and do a practical assessment of the new member's knowledge. It is not that hard to work out whether someone has the requisite knowledge or not.

    This two-part induction recognises that our Men's Shed is much more that a shared workshop. We have many members who have no intention of using the workshop, and never do the workshop safety induction.
    At a Management Committee level, we are thinking that we might need a third step to better consider what a new member needs and help them to get started in the sorts of things that would suit them. This may involve some sort of 'mentoring' by one of the longer-serving members. This is still at the 'thinking' stage on this, but have an inkling that some men may need mentoring to even make the first step of coming to the Shed, while other's just need a nudge to extend the first visit into a habit. We get quite a few men who join, never attend and then don't renew their membership.

    I don't agree at all that a Men's Shed is a workplace and needs the same sort of safety systems as regular workplaces. The secret is to to develop a safe workshop culture rather than a bureaucracy. The Men's Shed movement is all about addressing problems in men's health by addressing social isolation and other sources of depression. There is a fine balance between the rules that apply to the workshop and the level of participation. In our area at least, many of the blokes have their own workshops, and if you make it too onerous, they just stay at home where they can do what they like - which negates what the Shed is trying to do.

    So we focus on the issues that can cause immediate and serious injury. For the first three years of my membership, there was a complex safety system. Each member had a safety card (in theory) with 125 boxes to be filled out with dates, signatures etc. When we did an audit, there had not been one entry in three years and more than half of the members didn't even have a card. We now have a much simpler system based on broad groups of tooling and the relative risks.

    At the end of the day it comes down to having something that suits the situation and can be sustained. In our case, the old system fell apart because there were not enough volunteers to keep it going. The original 'safety committee' of five slowly reduced to one, who was excellent in the practical application and completely averse to any paperwork.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruceward51 View Post
    I don't agree at all that a Men's Shed is a workplace and needs the same sort of safety systems as regular workplaces. The secret is to to develop a safe workshop culture rather than a bureaucracy. The Men's Shed movement is all about addressing problems in men's health by addressing social isolation and other sources of depression. There is a fine balance between the rules that apply to the workshop and the level of participation.
    I think you nailed it in the above paragraph. Men's shed are primarily a men's mental health organization/service.

    At the mens shed I attend occasionally, members can come and go as they please, be absent for long periods, work on their own projects, or shared projects, or do nothing at all in the workshop. Members don't have to attend any safety meetings or any meetings at all.
    This does not strike me as being similar to any workshop type workplace I have ever worked in or heard of.

    All this makes it harder to maintain some sort of safety standards but it should not be impossible.

    In our area at least, many of the blokes have their own workshops, and if you make it too onerous, they just stay at home where they can do what they like - which negates what the Shed is trying to do.
    It's probably a less common situation but in my case it was the opposite whereby safety was too lax for me so while I remain as a member I work in my own shed where my mental health doesn't get affected worrying about the safety of others.

  10. #9
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    I don't agree at all that a Men's Shed is a workplace and needs the same sort of safety systems as regular workplaces. The secret is to to develop a safe workshop culture rather than a bureaucracy.
    Maybe we have a misunderstanding of what I was trying to define as a "workplace". I meant safe workshop culture, not a bureaucracy.
    My old Engineer Sgt used to simply say, "switch on, men!!", when it came time to start working with explosives, live mines and grenades.
    That identifies the principle that alertness levels need to be ramped up, the instant the danger level is ramped up. Just like you automatically do, out of experience, when your fingers are within 150mm of a humming saw blade.

    I've been a one-third owner and senior manager of a family-owned mining and earthmoving contracting business over more than 30 years, that employed up to 102 people at any one time.
    These industries (earthmoving and mining) have been littered with fatalities and injuries over the decades, because all the work is with machinery, big and small, and involves many dangerous situations.
    I'm proud of the fact that in all the time I spent in that industry, no-one that worked for me, ever suffered a debilitating injury - and I only had one fatality.

    That one fatality was simply one young employee who failed to wear his seatbelt when driving a company vehicle - against his training and instruction.
    He was ejected from the vehicle when he rolled it, and landed head-first on the road, at over 100kmh.
    I believe I did everything that was humanly possible to ensure he was not injured or killed at work - the simple fact was, he failed to follow instructions.

    Unfortunately, uni-educated people have driven the OH&S culture in mining, to idiotic extremes - instead of just adopting practical procedures, with minimal BS.
    You've never seen OH&S BS and bureaucracy, until you've been in a large company mining operation. They take everything to extremes.
    Angle grinders and ladders are banned on minesites, because of their "potential for injury" - such is the large mining company extremism.

    The world of today is driven by lawyers, and led by the American style. They make life difficult for everyone, with their attitude that someone has to pay in a big way, for every mistake.
    The potential for costly disaster lurks at every corner, and essentially, you simply have to have documented, proven, and verifiable procedures and training in place, to stop lawyers in their tracks, when they make a money grab after an "incident".
    Those procedures and training don't have to involve major bureaucracy, but it must be clear and unambiguous, and be able to withstand assaults by the rottweiler section of the legal fraternity - who will make your life hell if you have failed to document your procedures, and fail in your duty of care.

    https://sielearning.tafensw.edu.au/M...ty_of_care.htm

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetrack View Post
    Unfortunately, uni-educated people have driven the OH&S culture in mining, to idiotic extremes - instead of just adopting practical procedures, with minimal BS.
    Sounds like we are all on the same page about the official work safety. When the 'official' OHS started to get hold, my Dad was a plumber. An inspector showed up just as he was setting up to work on some guttering on a boil;ding. He had the ladder off the truck and was just getting straps ready to secure the top. The inspector wanted to give him a ticket for having an unstrapped ladder in place until Dad asked how you fit the straps without putting the ladder in place first. for He got a grumbled warning and the inspector watched him like a hawk for months afterwards.

    I appreciate Bob's situation which was well aired in another thread. I suspect that it is a common problem with volunteering organisations in that you end up with a management who are there because they are prepared to stand and put up with the BS rather than because they are the best managers available. I found the same thing when I was in the Scouting movement some years ago. I found that plenty of good competent people opted out when the BS got too much - but ALL the misfits and nut jobs stayed put or moved up the hierarchy. That is not to say that all the people in the hierarchy were nut jobs of course.

  12. #11
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    My intention was not to go to the extreme in our Men's shed. I was looking at a form of induction that shows a person is capable of using a piece of equipment safely. Even with this we will still need floor supervisors to be help people maintain their and others safety.

    I have no intention of making this a chore, it needs to be simple addressing what needs to be done to achieve a positive result.

    As they say - Safety is everyone's responsibility.

  13. #12
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    At our local men's Shed in which I am involved, we had a system where every body had to be ticked off to prove they could work a machine for the first time.
    This does work to a certain extent.
    Unfortunately this still does not stop accidents happening. I don't know the answer to this. If you make it too onerous you will stop people coming. However you do need to be seen that you are trying to make it a safe place to work in.
    At our Men's Shed we have a lot of wood working machinery and sometimes I cringe when I see what someone is doing. Yes - I do approach them and speak quietly to that person. In most cases this appears to work.
    I believe a Men's Shed is a unique type of place in that most people who come have worked their entire lives and we need to acknowledge this- but still be prepared to speak up if required.

  14. #13
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    I'm not a member of a Mens Shed but have been following these two conversations on the subject with interest. I think it would be very difficult for me to put up with people who have to be reminded multiple times of their safety breaches. That's because all my working life I have heeded warnings given to me by more experienced workmates or bosses and generally didn't need to be told twice.
    As a concrete agi driver I experienced 5 chute collapses over 26 years. These were caused by faulty welds or hydraulic hose failure or from over loading the chute with low slump concrete on too little slope. When a chute full of 'conc comes down it flattens the chute and anything in the way and you get no warning. I made a rule that no one was to cross under the chute of my agi while discharging concrete and it almost got to the stage of having to hang a warning sign under it.
    We were working at Whim Creek and fellow in his 50's had been warned by me a number of times to the extent that I threatened to borrow a shovel and clout him the next time he ducked under. Finally his boss took him aside and told him he'd be fired if he did it again. It's people like him that are going to make life hell for you at the Mens Shed and I would not like to be attempting to police it.
    Cheers, Geoff.

  15. #14
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    Hi Geoff, the vast majority of incidences are minor issues such as forgetting to put on earmuffs or safety glasses etc. ( we all do that at some time !!) The reality is that major issues are picked up by others very quickly and that person is shown how to do it properly. To me that is what it should be about - helping each other.

    When I joined our local shed 4 years ago I had never done any wood work since I left school nearly 50 years ago. I must admit I made some stupid mistakes.
    But thanks to others being quite happy to teach me and show me, I have grown to love doing wood work. Now I pass on my little bit of knowledge to others as well.

    Others love to get stuck into welding or metal lathe work or gardening. It doesn't matter. It is the fellowship, the companionship that counts.

    I must admit that this post does appear to have taken a very morbid turn. Please do not let that deter you from going and having a look for yourself at your local Men's Shed.

    Every one is different and they are there for men just like you and me. Some just like to sit and chat, which is just as important as some one who wants to get in and do a project either for themselves or the community.


    Ken

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