Thread: Safety frustration at the mens shed

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Could litigation be prevented by requiring all members to sign a waiver ........

Quite a difficult one, Elan. Waiver forms really can be a two edged sword, and can bight you unexpectedly.

One one hand, if something untoward happens then the miscreant or victim may be dissauded from taking action because he had signed the waiver.

Alternatively, the very existance of the waiver document may be persuasive evidence that the shed's committee was aware of the potential dangers and failed to take adequate remedial action.

The courts tend to be sympathetic towards the victim, even when he acts irresponsibly.


Cheers

Graeme

O

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Could litigation be prevented by requiring all members to sign a waiver

From distant memory I think it is impossible to sign away any rights you may have by law. And such a request for that would be illegal.

Peter.

That's right - the mens shed I was at has a sort of a waiver but even our "in house" legal advice was it was not worth much.
Anyway - my stress levels from all this are slowly fading. I popped in this morning to say hello but I did not stay long.

Some rights you can sign awy some you can't - depends on the wording of the legislation

On another point I had an argument with one of our experienced members today

He said: "I've been doing it like this for 40 years"
I said "good, but not on my watch!" "use the sled"
He said "I don't know how, never been shown it's use"
I said: "here I'll show you"

1st cut done easily and safely
leaves saw running whilst lining up the second cut.
I turn saw off.
He says "don't ever turn the saw off when I'm using it!"
I said "don't do adjustments while it's running"
he said a lot of words beginning with F
I said "don't care don't do it, you are giving the inexperienced members bad ideas"

He'll probably start talking to me again in about 2 weeks

Bob,
I find it amazing that you feel that you don't have 'trade cred'...anyone that knows your background knows you have loads of hands on and a theoretical understanding beyond most people's reach.
Hang in there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Cheers Kev.

I know it might even sound a bit pathetic to some but I spent most of my working life telling other people what to do and in retirement I figure I do that enough on-line in these forums.

The OHS side of things was only one of a number issues which I won't go into here.

Anyway its been a month since I stopped supervising. I'm still a member and I do things for them in my own shed, I've been going in once a week to pick things up or drop things of.
I won't work there, it is too chaotic, tools are lost, broken, blunt or being used by someone else, and watching other blokes using machinery in an unsafe manner does nothing for my mental health.

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Some rights you can sign awy some you can't - depends on the wording of the legislation.

Good point. But also a lot of the law in this area is case law, judge-made law, and it is evolving constantly.

On another point I had an argument with one of our experienced members today..............................

He was down here, too!



Cheers

Graeme

It's interesting
I rarely go down to the shed to do anything for myself (except use the thicky - it's better than mine)
it's mainly to meet with the other chaps and help out on the shed projects
eg we had a mum come in the other day and ask if we could make a platform thingy for her son (with cerebral palsy) so he could stand at the kitchen bench
easy it should be done in a week or so.
and we have five steering wheels to do, and ...

From a legal stand point one would imagine as a supervisor you have a duty of care. Most sheds have a tea break and share whats going on, upcoming projects and accomplishments etc.
I'd be telling it like it is in this setting (Tea break) and also looking for more facilitators the ratio of 1 : 15 or 20 is way too low. I'd also consider getting someone whose been injured to come along to smoko and tell their story......in other words put the wind up them all.
Failing this I'd go with KB's aka Kryn's autocratic approach.

Good luck

ok... Cat almost the pigeons. This topic really interests me. Making sure everyone is safe, it's hand in glove. Guess making sure your members know you've a task to do, & it will be one that at times each of the members will not like. Senior aged regression is not pleasant to deal with. Still, I'd rather they be mad instead of being in hospital due to accidents that could have been avoided...so, shutting down machinery when they show incompetence first shows immediate response & gives you credibility to your position as Supervisor/OHS Officer. Even do a so called "fire drill" get someone to pretend to do something silly & then bring it to everyone attention & work out how to avoid it happening again. Training, safety 2 minute pre-start before each session, even do a renewal workshop licence & competence every 12 months. OK, now I'm going to read previous messages, to see if I can learn more too. Cheers Kekemo.

Think its important to remember that Shed's must meet safety requirements or not be allowed to operate. Signing waivers shouldn't be allowed. Not a pinch of there salt if litigation happens. Members should be reminded regularly, if we don't operate properly will could be shut down. Men's health & mental issues are as important as women's, as young at risk youth & women recovering from abusive relationships... ALL NEED HELP... ALL CAN BENEFIT from woodwork/ metalworking/computer/pottery SHED's. Anyone taking on a Supervisory role need as much support as possible.

Two shed's that I've visited recently, their workshop(the premises which didn't belong to them)were in violation of many things... electrical gear not meeting standard tagging. Cover off saws blades, unsafe extension cords running over floors, no dust extraction in enclosed area's ... they didn't want to comply. They fought tooth & nail... absolutely refused anyone telling them what to do... in end had 2 options, comply or find another location. When the buildings belong to Community Church or State School... they must meet certain requirements to use the buildings.

I'm no longer involved with supervision at the shed and just drop in about once a week to drop stuff off and pick stuff up for repairs etc. However, FWIW I have heard the committee had a meeting with the Council, who own the building, and the committee was informed by the council representative of the following. The council will only concern itself with what goes on outside the building (i.e. public safety) and the building itself. but is not concerned with how things are run inside the building. The only remaining lever on safe operation is the insurance policy which assumes that things are done safely.

Great comments and I really appreciate your feedback. Safety for some reason has always been an awkward subject to approach at any level and to any audience so resistance is understandable....... and change will only come about by diligence and persistance. Don't become disheartened if you sound like the lone wolf because your actions are proactive input and who knows what harm your words may have already been avoided as a result. I know I sound like a broken record myself and it seems crazy to me that after 44 years in an industry where we always had dedicated officers to manage safety and to which I was always a little weary of that I now preach the word but the thing is after all that time it became a culture in my work ethics. I understand your point about the transient population during the day and that is a difficult problem. I know within our smaller group we have certain guys that take the lead due to trade, skill base and experience and we try to cultivate a spirit of dont use a peice of machinery until you have received instrucrion and are competent. Like many Sheds we spend time making stuff for stalls, applying for funds etc..... the bread and butter that keeps us going but a couple of realities of working around rotating machinery is that it costs alot to replace/repair and it has little regard for fingers. Most of all we want to have fun but we need to be responsible in how we achieve that...... I never took safety awards ( well once when it was an Acubra hat and I had a farm so it made sense) my honest belief was that if I and my workmates could go home to our families at the end of a shift then that was the best award for everyone. We have just recently had our shed rewired so we dont have extension leads on the ground (trip hazard) we have had all electrical machinery safety tagged (prevents electic shocks) upgraded some older machinery, imposed a no hot work ban 1/2 hour before knock off in the metal room so we can maintain a fire watch before closing up..... Steer the course my friend because your deligence will pay dividends I believe. Hope this encourages you.