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  1. #226
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    It's not like out shed is special - I see similar safety issues other sheds as well.
    The Men's Shed idea was created to promote / solve / educate men about men's physical and mental health issues, and to reduce social isolation etc.

    That is t
    he fundamental issue with "working safely" in those sheds, the men involved have come from very diverse backgrounds, have widely differing life experience, and expectations. The inclusivity ideals of the movement and the vast range of activities being undertaken in Men's Sheds make it a challenge to manage the environment and the people, and to "get rid of" those who refuse to toe the line. Being the odd man out and charged with being the "safety Nazi" is not fun!

    For those who have come from a "safety culture" work environment into a Men's Shed or similar it can be quite confronting and more so when they are given a "job" with the responsibility of supervising, managing and in a legal sense being saddled with a duty of care obligation to those they are "responsible for."

    Its all nice and cosy being casual until the wheels fall off and somebody gets seriously injured.
    Mobyturns

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  3. #227
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    Safety is only one of a raft of issues at mens shed.

    Outright thieves
    Members who help them selves to materials without offering to make some sort of contribution. Do you every see them offering to pick up donations or helping out in any other way?
    Members who only do stuff for themselves - OK they paid their dues but they do nothing else.
    Members that blunted damage gear and then put it back with telling anyone.
    Members who never put stuff away and clutter up the shed with their projects etc
    ETC

    I don't want to sound like a "righteous git" but all the above sticks in my craw when I have never done a job for myself at the mens shed. Most of the guys are quite reasonable but there's still too many in "I'm in it for what I can get". Fortunately they don't usually last long as members.

    In terms of management -
    Hoarding of material and machinery - this can also be a safety issue when it impacts on working space around machinery
    Purchasing of machines without even a half baked business case. Typically machines that only one or two members end up using especially when other machines used by a wider group of members need replacing.
    Taking on of projects by shed management without any reasonable planning or identification of persons to take on the projects. - this one really gives me the Tom Tits
    Poor induction, member skill assessment, and training, including no systems for ongoing training.
    No system of regular reviews or self assessment - she'll be right mate.
    ETC

  4. #228
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    Bob, sounds like any of the businesses I have worked for in the past. For every one bloke that can and will do the job, there is four that can't and won't do it. And as far as thievery goes, at work we keep the toilet paper under lock and key. Yeah, I said "toilet paper" not a bloody cash box!!!!

  5. #229
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    Here's a typical scenario at the mens shed.

    I sometimes get asked to research and purchase small items and this time what they wanted were some drills bits for difficult steels and stainless steel. I suggested M42 (Cobalt) bits and purchased some for them and gave them to one of the supervisors.

    Last week (of course I was not there) one of the members tried drilling some stainless with regular HSS and ran into trouble. After gnawing away at it for a while he approached the supervisor who said 'use one of Bobs bits and use very high pressure" but he managed somehow to do this.
    SSdrilling1.jpg

    It's hard to see but this bit is dead blunt and has a galled cap of SS sitting on the end. When I went in for my weekly visit the supervisor complained to me that I had purchased dodgy bits.
    I tried to find the member who was using the bit but he was not around - however I know which bench drill press he was using and the speed is never changed on that DP and when I check it was still at ~1000 rpm.

    I took the bent bit and another the same size home and tried the new bit on some SS myself using 400 rpm.
    Absolutely no problem. N are the two holes drilled with the new bit.
    I cut the bend off the old bit, reground the tip and drilled the two holes marked "O"
    In this photo you can see the galled SS cap on the end of teh bit.
    SSdrilling.jpg

    I emailed the member and supervisor with the above photo and the member confirmed the use of high rpms - he thought it would cut better.
    What had happened is that using the HSS first work hardened the SS so much that even the M42 bit would not cut through it. The said member had continued to gnaw on the same hole and of course he ran into trouble. The solution then if the same hole was to be drilled out was a carbide bit.

    The supervisor is a former metal work teacher and should have know this but as usual he was probably very busy and did not follow up on exactly what had happened.

  6. #230
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    I volunteer at a Day Centre, where we have a Shed for use by the Clients. We have 3 volunteers in total, 2 on Tuesday and 2 on Wednesday, I do both days, I can come in on either of those days and find stuff missing, or put away in different places but nobodyknows whodone it.
    I make jigs to make the products easier and quicker, only to find that Mr Nobody has butchered the jig. The person took out the locating screw and drilled it out with a hole saw, 15mm away from centre.
    The shed was closed for 3 months while upgrades on work procedures were done, all because a volunteer nicked the back of his left hand holding the piece of timber on the right hand side of the dropsaw, and his right hand operating the saw!!! Just plain b****y stupidity, they have purchased a training program to prevent this happening again.
    I didn't know there was a program to prevent stupidity? Some people shouldn't be allowed near tools of any description!!!!
    There have been days that I feel are a waste of time being there.
    So Bob I feel your pain.
    Kryn
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  7. #231
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    Thanks Kryn.

    I tried to steel myself to the, "There have been days that I feel are a waste of time being there" early on in my supervision involvement with mens sheds until it became too much for me to cope with and I had to disentangle myself from the supervision.

    If I wasn't helping in some way or other I see no point in attending a mens shed as I needed another social network like a hole in the head.
    I also still have a working shed whereas most blokes at the mens shed at which I am still a member have nowhere else to go and do their "stuff", and some have few other places to go socially.

    A few members of my mens shed that have visited my shed have said now we understand why you don't come in very often. Not because it's got any sort of fancy gear or plenty of space but because of the of variety of unusual gizmos and evidence of
    the dozen plus projects on the go.



  8. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    ... until it became too much for me to cope with and I had to disentangle myself from the supervision. If I wasn't helping in some way or other I see no point in attending a mens shed ....
    The stuff you mentioned above is pretty much par for the course. I had a pretty strong case against one "life" member who among many things was swapping out good quality blanks supplied by another member for the beginners courses, and woodturning chisels when new tools were being purchased. As secretary I had noticed some disturbing trends about "abnormal activities" and alarming tool damage and tool steel wear rates, so decided to quietly monitor things for a while.

    The offender/s would wait a while until the tool developed some patina from use then would swap it out with a tarted up old tool. Only way I cottoned on was that I noticed a "very high wear rate" on one specific new tool, not that unusual in the typical scheme of things in the workshop until on closer inspection I noticed it was a "no-name" brand and not the Sorby that was purchased.

    A quick audit revealed that many of the Sorby tools in the communal woodturning tools had been swapped out. Same handles, different tool steel - deception that could only be done when no other members were about. Very high rates of use of consumables used in the beginners classes etc. Missing Vicmarc chucks, and complaints from other members that their personal tools had disappeared from workshop sessions. Not cheap tools either and hurts members who have scrimped and saved on fixed pensions to purchase their own tools so they don't have to put up with the BS of "re-ground" tools etc. One common factor - the same member/s present and who had access outside of workshop sessions!!!!

    Seems a few were in cahoots, but not enough proof to mount a winnable case against "life" members.
    Mobyturns

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  9. #233
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    crowie is offline Life's Good, Enjoy each new day & try to encourage
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    Sounds like the only option would be a secret camera job in a couple of areas....

  10. #234
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    The important thing we so easily forget is the purpose of Mens Sheds in the first place. Therapy. It is not supposed to be a production factory with a massive workforce, toiling away at all hours, producing high standard goods for sale to the masses. I run a shed for a small number of interested persons who wish to extend their woodwork knowledge and skills. The criteria is; If you dont upset me, I wont upset you. Seems to be working OK.

  11. #235
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    As your mother used to say, "It's all fun and games until someone loses a *"

    *insert body part here.

  12. #236
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    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    The important thing we so easily forget is the purpose of Mens Sheds in the first place. Therapy. It is not supposed to be a production factory with a massive workforce, toiling away at all hours, producing high standard goods for sale to the masses.
    Absolutely Ken. Trouble is that it's the shed managements that need to be told this. As Bob has said they always seem to be on a fundraiser path. Perhaps some of those funds should be used to install some cameras.

    I've seen similar in the local shed here, but I don't know how hell bent on it they are. Certainly they are not as well equipped as Bob's shed seems to be. (or weren't, 3 years ago).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  13. #237
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    I was on a work-site Thursday to fit up a door. On arrival I opened the door and to my surprise found the flooring installer inside. There was an absolutely overpowering solvent smell because the installer was removing adhesive from the recently installed VCT with lacquer thinner. All windows and doors were shut and the AC was running full tilt. Outside temperature 39 oC. The flooring guys pupils were the size of dinner plates. I didn't feel like making a second trip so I sucked it up, literally. I rode home with my car AC on. Two days later I used the car again and the AC had condensed so much lacquer thinner from my earlier exposure that I had to open the windows to let the fumes out.

    I re-visited the same unit a bit later to set up some outlet boxes. At the time there were others present who were involved in setting up a gas range. A bit later I smelled mercaptans and shouted to shut the gas off. Some discussion ensued during which it was suggested that a match be used to find the gas leak. Fortunately for all concerned no matches were available.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

  14. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Absolutely Ken. Trouble is that it's the shed managements that need to be told this. As Bob has said they always seem to be on a fundraiser path. Perhaps some of those funds should be used to install some cameras.
    We have cameras but nobody wants to look a two weeks worth of video to find a missing chisel.

  15. #239
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    Any organisation that takes on pretty much all comers is going to have its problems. How management deals with this will determine the level of success enjoyed by all.
    A friend of mine died recently and left a shed full (read over full) of top line tools and machinery to his local Mens Shed. I hate to think how abused this equipment is going to be as it falls into inexperienced hands and hope the organizers have the sense to limit the onslaught. But I doubt it.

  16. #240
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    Hi Guys

    Many years ago, I was a member of a sporting club and the club re-covered and re-cushioned a pair of billyard tables at quite a high cost. Debate ensued as to ways of extending the life of this expensive cloth and as a "trial" a couple of new rules were created. The club was carpeted throughout but with marquetry flooring for about 1.5 metres around the billyard tables. The rule:

    • If you put one foot on the marquetry with a drink or a smoke in your hand then it was a $1 fine,
    • If your mates did not dob you in then they got fined $2 each.


    Many drinking groups interpreted the new rule as "you have to pay the club $1 (or $2) and buy us all a round of drinks."

    Catching your mates out quickly became part of the culture of the club and the members were incredibly vigilent at policing their fellow members.



    Cheers

    Graeme

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