Thread: Safety frustration at the mens shed

Originally Posted by pete101

Just want to add a little to the sops that were mentioned I have just been tasked with replacing sops in the school tech shop I work in as an SSO and after being taken to a meeting with the teachers to have the new rules regarding locking of all machines when not in use and other changes the group was asked who has a risk assessment folder some yes some blank looks some admitting stuff out of date. The advice given by the guy running the Training WAS if you have an accident first thing I am going to ask for is the risk assessment for that machine

Not being negative, but I wonder how much longer your school will have a tech shop.

Many lay people find the risk assessment process too confronting and respond by removing the "too risky" tools from use.

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

I had to have a chat to the same person that cut the back of his hand, again. He was starting to put a piece of timber through the saw bench, first of all he'd set the guide at a distance, but left the guard up, correcting him on that, he then proceeded to cut the timber. On the same piece of timber, which yet hadn't been cut, he had the end that goes into the blade about 30 mm off the table, pushing down on the unsupported end!!!!!!

you just need to change your SOPs.
cross cutting is restricted to sticks shorter than the distance between the blade and the edge of the table

Alternatively, cross cutting is only permitted with the chop saw and the piece must be clamped onto the saw's table and both the operator's hands MUST be on the handle of the saw

Is he a disaster waiting to happen, again??????

unfortunately, it appears so.

Seriously, consideration should be given to not allowing this person to use either saw.

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

Is he a disaster waiting to happen, again??????

Originally Posted by ian

Seriously, consideration should be given to not allowing this person to use either saw.

I'd be a bit harsher than that if he has already injured himself once before. No more power tools - at all. Maybe let him use a sander in 3 months time.
He's clearly a kenidiot, and as such is going to be a danger to others as well at some stage - he'll find a way. (I've wanted to use that for such a long time!)

I agree

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

He's clearly a kenidiot, and as such is going to be a danger to others as well at some stage - he'll find a way. (I've wanted to use that for such a long time!)

some people have little if any spacial awareness, so while I agree perhaps limit the ban to power saws, drum sanders, routers, and everything else with a high speed rotating cutter

Just something a little bit off topic...
My neighbour who is a council worker mentioned that he even has to train and sign off on the use of a broom, shovel, etc as part of the council standard safety training...
The world seems to be going mad when it gets to that level of certification and paperwork to do a job....

Originally Posted by crowie

The world seems to be going mad when it gets to that level of certification and paperwork to do a job....

When I signed up for volunteer "mens shed" supervision at the aged care facility (not the main mens shed I am a member of) I had to undergo a minimum of 4 hours of training on; Elder abuse, Hygiene (mainly on how to wash your hands), Handling (lifting and moving things) and Fire Awareness. Included in each section was a ~10 minute written exam. They training supervisor then went through your answers and made sure you knew where you got anything wrong. Nowhere did I undertake any training on safety in a workshop but that was probably because even though the activities took place in a workshop the area the attendees had access to was separated by a barrier - those that could only used hand tools and occasionally I would bring in a small portable drill. I had access to the full workshop and did the sharpening and cutting etc so it was assumed I knew what I was doing.

The handling training did not apply to residents. I was not permitted to physically assist (touch) a member - not even to help them stand up from a seating position - unless I had done the 2 hour "Physical assistance and handling of residents". As a volunteer this training was not mandatory because I was always accompanied by a staff member. Not that it made much sense because with to 12 residents present at shed sessions there were often occasions where more than one resident needed assistance. If I had stayed on I would have done this training because it was one of the most frustrating things about this volunteering

At the other mens shed, a new member signs up. Following a 90 minute induction (talk) and assessment based largely on what the new member says (ie with no demonstrable skill check), the new member are given an initial skill rating (green, bronze, silver and gold - his determines which machines the have access to) and let loose in the shed. Not good enough in my book.

Originally Posted by crowie

Just something a little bit off topic...
My neighbour who is a council worker mentioned that he even has to train and sign off on the use of a broom, shovel, etc as part of the council standard safety training...
The world seems to be going mad when it gets to that level of certification and paperwork to do a job....

Peter, you and I are old enough to have grown up with parents, uncles, neighbours, etc who were manual labourers. The "learn by example and doing" is no longer out there in our community and even 45 years ago it was less common than we like to believe.
A former work colleague learnt to use a shovel working underground in the Broken Hill mines in the mid-70s. Myself, I learnt to use a broom working as a labourer in the break between school and uni. Neither skill comes naturally, especially in an era when even minor injuries can lead to a worker's compensation claim.

Originally Posted by ian

Peter, you and I are old enough to have grown up with parents, uncles, neighbours, etc who were manual labourers. The "learn by example and doing" is no longer out there in our community and even 45 years ago it was less common than we like to believe.
A former work colleague learnt to use a shovel working underground in the Broken Hill mines in the mid-70s. Myself, I learnt to use a broom working as a labourer in the break between school and uni. Neither skill comes naturally, especially in an era when even minor injuries can lead to a worker's compensation claim.

In the middle 50's , I worked in the local supermarket after school and one of my tasks was to sweep the floor. I was told that if I could sweep a floor properly I would be able to do anything properly. There is an "art" to it.

Originally Posted by crowie

The world seems to be going mad when it gets to that level of certification and paperwork to do a job....

The traffic controllers at road works need 3 certificates to hold a 'stop' sign. I was passing a couple of them yesterday and asked if they had the 3 certificates - one said that she had, the other did not but he was only filling in while the triple certificate got a cup of coffee.

Originally Posted by Chesand

In the middle 50's , I worked in the local supermarket after school and one of my tasks was to sweep the floor. I was told that if I could sweep a floor properly I would be able to do anything properly. There is an "art" to it.

There was no art in sweeping the parade ground with was a WW2 airfield runway; you just had a “gunnery jack” yelling at us naval apprentices to hurry up and finish if we wanted lunch.

By your admission you are the safety officer. Mens shed constitution says you are the authority whilst acting in that capacity volunteer or not. If you deem something to be unsafe rightly or otherwise the members are required to comply the have the right to refer their concerns to their executive and they in turn will take it up with you and issue a directive. The table saw throwing the screwdriver into the old guy minding his own business into the corner will play on your mind for a long time. The fact you will have to explain your role at the coronal enquiry may be just as hard. My position at our mens shed as is yours, do the job earn the respect. Regards

Originally Posted by dextadog

By your admission you are the safety officer. Mens shed constitution says you are the authority whilst acting in that capacity volunteer or not. If you deem something to be unsafe rightly or otherwise the members are required to comply the have the right to refer their concerns to their executive and they in turn will take it up with you and issue a directive. The table saw throwing the screwdriver into the old guy minding his own business into the corner will play on your mind for a long time. The fact you will have to explain your role at the coronal enquiry may be just as hard. My position at our mens shed as is yours, do the job earn the respect. Regards

If you are referring to me then no I am not the safety officer and i told the committee this several times. When teh shed was set up the committee decided there would be no safety officer at our shed (it's in the minutes of several meetings), supervisors would not be the only ones responsible, everyone would be responsible. The outcome of this was that not very many members did much and the same old casual outlook was applied. Anyone supervising has a specific list of duties and none of them relate to the enforcement of safety. No supervisor can say "your banned" - they can refer problem members to the committee and there is a long winded system of reporting, and appeal and counter appeals.

Anyway I only go there for less than an hour a week to pick up stuff and drop stuff off and don't even sign in and try not to look too hard.

Originally Posted by crowie

There was no art in sweeping the parade ground with was a WW2 airfield runway; you just had a “gunnery jack” yelling at us naval apprentices to hurry up and finish if we wanted lunch.

learning by osmosis and hunger pangs ??