Page 6 of 22 FirstFirst 123456789101116 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 326
  1. #76
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    No, Mobyturns, I will have to disagree with you on this one.

    The risk of prosecution under WHS law is very low, bordering zero.
    • A mens shed is usually not an employer or a workplace.
    • WorkCover is so grossly understaffed that they cannot afford to go looking for work.

    Your other comments are not relevant in regard to the case that I referenced. My eight fingered friend is not a member of a mens shed. The instances refered to happened in his shed and in my shed until I very firmly told him never to remove my riving knife. He went through a similar process in a couple of other friends sheds - we regularly help eachother and share machinery - and was repeatedly told not to remove the guards.

    Now, he uses machinery with guards in place in other peoples sheds whilst cheerfully grumbling about what a PIA all the guards are. In his own shed, guards of the most basic kind are non-existant.


    Graeme
    Graeme,
    The legislation may still vary across states even though there was a push to standardize the legislation. I must admit I have not fully kept up with research since 2008 and the advice I received then (for QLD) is that the ownership of plant (buildings, machinery) and the maintenance of it is the thing that will most likely attract WPH&S's attention. Your friend exists in most men’s sheds – there always seems to be a few of them.

    Work cover may well be under staffed and not interested in “work place” inspections however they must investigate “notifiable incidents.” The decision to refer a “notifiable incident” to WPH&S most likely will be made by an attending Police officer in the event of a fatality or serious injury. That is not the time to find out that the “undertaking” you are involved with comes under their jurisdiction.

    BobL you may find parts of this helpful, even though it is QLD specific advice for retirement villages. Note the “User Agreement” on page 34.

    Safety in the Work Shed: A practical guide for retirement village operators in Queensland - Publications - Be Informed - Minter Ellison
    Last edited by Mobyturns; 18th Jan 2016 at 09:10 PM. Reason: problems with link
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    Graeme,
    The legislation may still vary across states even though there was a push to standardize the legislation. I must admit I have not fully kept up with research since 2008 and the advice I received then (for QLD) is that the ownership of plant (buildings, machinery) and the maintenance of it is the thing that will most likely attract WPH&S's attention. Your friend exists in most men’s sheds – there always seems to be a few of them.

    Work cover may well be under staffed and not interested in “work place” inspections however they must investigate “notifiable incidents.” The decision to refer a “notifiable incident” to WPH&S most likely will be made by an attending Police officer in the event of a fatality or serious injury. That is not the time to find out that the “undertaking” you are involved with comes under their jurisdiction.

    BobL you may find parts of this helpful, even though it is QLD specific advice for retirement villages. Note the “User Agreement” on page 34.

    Safety in the Work Shed: A practical guide for retirement village operators in Queensland - Publications - Be Informed - Minter Ellison
    Thanks for the link but unfortunately it doesn't apply all that well as retirement villages employ people and the they come under Worksafe.
    We also have a similar User Agreement to the one in that document

    We have no shortage of suitable User Agreements, documentation and guidelines, especially from AMSA - the issue is more about how do we get the members to take all this on board.

    As you may know I have supervised/demonstrated WW at a retirement Village. Even though I was a volunteer, the OTs that helped and the Maintenance guys who's workshop we used were all paid so it was all covered by Worksafe. An even greater issue was he disability of some users that had to be taken into consideration. I also found working there stressful but not because of the safety angle but that is another story.

    New Association Laws come into force in WA in July of this year. The changes are mostly around the permitted trading test - able to compete with private businesses etc but it looks like the liability of volunteers to not be sued has been more clearly spelled out - I will get our legal eagles onto for their opinion.

  4. #78
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post

    the issue is more about how do we get the members to take all this on board.
    Bob, I really don't think you can get them to "take it on board" as they simply want to socialize, do their own thing and let some one else worry about it for them.

    It really is quite difficult to manage given the diverse range of members personalities, peer group dynamics, backgrounds, education, experience, skills, their advancing years, mobility, medical conditions etc. I don't think it is insurmountable by any means but it certainly requires a lot of time, dedication, energy and diplomacy, something many of us wish to avoid in our leisure pursuits.

    More clarity about the liability of volunteers would be comforting but it seems the Civil Liabilities Act in QLD didn't have as great an impact as the pollies had hoped.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  5. #79
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,854

    Default

    I got curious about how Bob could improve things at the shed so I though about how others organizations mitigate their risk when sponsoring a men's shed. I use the term loosely to include all incorporated / unincorporated shed like environments, so it is definitely not specific to the Men's Shed movement or targeted at that movement.

    So I performed a Google search last night for "men's shed Coordinator" and "men's shed coordinator position description" which found several vacancy ads and job descriptions. It seems that many sponsoring organizations are opting for a paid full / part time coordinator to control the sheds activities.

    Most of these positions seem to be funded by grants for dementia support etc; sponsored by local government, or an organization like the Salvo's. This of course would significantly change the Workplace compliance issue and actually force the issue so that the Shed must comply with Workplace Health & Safety, machinery guarding, electrical compliance regulations etc.

    Removes any argument about "we don't have to comply, because we aren't performing paid work" and gives the sponsoring organization control through their representative who happens to be a paid employee.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  6. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    I got curious about how Bob could improve things at the shed so I though about how others organizations mitigate their risk when sponsoring a men's shed. I use the term loosely to include all incorporated / unincorporated shed like environments, so it is definitely not specific to the Men's Shed movement or targeted at that movement.

    So I performed a Google search last night for "men's shed Coordinator" and "men's shed coordinator position description" which found several vacancy ads and job descriptions. It seems that many sponsoring organizations are opting for a paid full / part time coordinator to control the sheds activities.
    That is correct, but there are many small sheds that are all volunteer based.

    Most of these positions seem to be funded by grants for dementia support etc; sponsored by local government, or an organization like the Salvo's. This of course would significantly change the Workplace compliance issue and actually force the issue so that the Shed must comply with Workplace Health & Safety, machinery guarding, electrical compliance regulations etc.
    Electrical compliance applies everywhere even in private/ domestic settings.
    We are fortunate to have three members who are sparkies, 2 with current licences, to cover that.
    The funding we have received has no obligation to operate according to Worksafe rules.
    The main external driver is the insurance which refers to "best practice' but does not specify what that means.
    The government funding we obtained only required we operate according to small association law which only refers to OHS in general terms and only requires Worksafe involvement where paid workers are concerned.

  7. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    N.W. Melb Suburb
    Age
    80
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    BTW The greatest risks to health we face are not machinery related - last year we had two heart attacks and rapid loss of blood pressure event that required medical attention.
    Some of us wanted to get a defibrillator kit but others were reticent about this - last thing I heard is we are getting one.
    BTW we had 23 members attend a First Aid short course last year and we have 5 members with Full First Aid certs.
    AT the first aid short course I had a fainting spell and had to sit outside for a half an hour before going home - it turned out I had the beginnings of a bad flu.
    If you get a defibrillator, it is essential that as many of your people as possible have the training. Some time ago, I was involved with a Community Bank that gave about 20 to local groups (mostly sporting groups) and we insisted on them attending training. It was "no training, no defibrillator". Our hope was that they were never needed.
    I have since been into several places where they have defibrillators and when I ask staff if they have had training, the answer is usually 'no because the first aid officer knows.' I am not sure what happens if he/she is not on duty or at lunch.
    They are not hard to use and certainly everyone in such a group as Bob's should know.
    Tom

    "It's good enough" is low aim

  8. #82
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    North of the coathanger, Sydney
    Age
    64
    Posts
    9,415

    Default

    My mens shed has a defibrillator
    training was provided but it is essentially fool proof as the machine itself takes you through the process



    we wanted to try it out on one of the members but were told that it was pointless as he was heartless!
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  9. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    N.W. Melb Suburb
    Age
    80
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    My mens shed has a defibrillator
    training was provided but it is essentially fool proof as the machine itself takes you through the process



    we wanted to try it out on one of the members but were told that it was pointless as he was heartless!
    You are right, Nick, they are pretty much foolproof but everyone needs to be shown that.

    At one of our training sessions, one guy was worried about exposing or touching a woman's breast to use it. The reply was that we felt she would not mind if he had saved her life.
    Tom

    "It's good enough" is low aim

  10. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    I got curious about how Bob could improve things at the shed so I though about how others organizations mitigate their risk ...... a paid full / part time coordinator to control the sheds activities.

    Removes any argument about "we don't have to comply, because we aren't performing paid work" and gives the sponsoring organization control through their representative who happens to be a paid employee.
    Interesting idea. It probably would work at many organisations.
    However...
    In the past I helped out at a volunteer based workshop centered organisation that had a paid Workshop Manager since about 2001. To this day they still have the problem of the 'old fogies' (read ever present, retiree members) that insist that new-fangled safety is not for them. The Manager always has too much to do to monitor safe practice every minute of the day- there is an expectation his priority is for him to solve projects with his (impressive) technical experience.
    This is a fascinating topic, keep up the good discussion everyone!
    regs
    Andrew
    'Waratah' spring hammer by Hands & Scott c.1911- 20, 'Duffy, Todd & Williams' spring hammer c.1920, Premo lathe- 1953, Premo filing machine.

  11. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    My mens shed has a defibrillator
    training was provided but it is essentially fool proof as the machine itself takes you through the process
    23 of our members attended a First aid short (3 hours) course last year run by a St John's.
    (We also have 5 members with full first aid certificates)
    The short course included a 10 minute demo of one of the latest defibrillators.
    The St Johns trainer running the course reckoned that is all the training needed.
    She also said that a short training video is also sufficient e.g. eg https://youtu.be/7LRP1zbsdO0
    If you look at that video you will see it is straight forward and far from rocket science.
    The defibrillator talks to you and tells you what to do.
    It has an impressive sensing capability that will not shock the patient's heart unless all the sensors report correctly.

  12. #86
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    se Melbourne
    Age
    58
    Posts
    2,141

    Default

    The good thing about doing a first aid course, is that the skills can be used anywhere. It is hoped that they are never needed, but sooner or later they might be needed. I myself regularly do a first aid course (paid for by a place where I volunteer), yet I have been called upon as a first aider where I am employed full time (in a medical facility). Thank fully it has yet to be a critical situation. The most important thing about a defibrillator is knowing where it is (usually signed) and that it is charged.

  13. #87
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    "Brownsville" Nth QLD
    Age
    61
    Posts
    2,854

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    My mens shed has a defibrillator training was provided but it is essentially fool proof as the machine itself takes you through the process
    I certainly hope they are foolproof as I would not like to see the procrastination I have seen occur in the shed environment when a group of retirees start deciding how do do something.

    I'm OK I will BYO as I've been battery operated for a month shy of nine years now.

    I hope most people in a shed or on this forum do a first aid course and a refresher every few years.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  14. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    23 of our members attended a First aid short (3 hours) course last year run by a St John's.
    (We also have 5 members with full first aid certificates)"
    The short course included a 10 minute demo of one of the latest defibrillators.
    The St Johns trainer running the course reckoned that is all the training needed.
    She also said that a short training video is also sufficient e.g. eg https://youtu.be/7LRP1zbsdO0
    If you look at that video you will see it is straight forward and far from rocket science.
    The defibrillator talks to you and tells you what to do.
    It has an impressive sensing capability that will not shock the patient's heart unless all the sensors report correctly.
    BUT ...

    someone has to have the gumption to go and get the bloody thing. Plus the box is typically alarmed so the ambos are automatically called if the box is opened. I'm not confident that my work colleagues wouldn't see the "this box is alarmed" sign and not go "maybe I should wait ..."
    In my day job work place, if a person suffered a heart attack, I estimate around 50% of the employees would ignore it -- "not my business", and most of the rest would stand around looking at each other going "should we send for the first aid person?" / "who is the First Aid person" / "how do you contact the first aid person?"
    4 years ago I accidentally slashed the back of my hand (luckily missing a major blood vessel or a nerve) -- the gash needed 4 or 5 stitches -- the response from my work colleagues was ...
    "you're bleeding"
    me: "I know. I need to wash the wound and apply a pressure bandage."
    "You're bleeding badly. You should wait and contact the first aid officer."
    me: "Please turn on the tap and give me some paper towel."
    "You should wait and get a proper bandage from first aid."
    me: "Wrap some packaging tape around my hand so I can apply pressure to the wound."
    "No. You can't do that, you should wait till first aid gets here"
    me (after wrapping a coupe of turns of tape around my hand one handed): "Get me a Cabcharge voucher."
    "OK"

    I recon I was in the cab on the way to casualty within 5 minutes of the injury and well before the employer's "first aide person" would have been contacted.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  15. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,193

    Default

    Creating a culture of everyone looking out for each other is what it's all about. That's why leaving medical things to a first aid officer and safety to a Safety officer is not as effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    In my day job work place, if a person suffered a heart attack, I estimate around 50% of the employees would ignore it -- "not my business", .
    The reaction of members at our shed appears to be the opposite of this.
    As I wrote above, last year 2 members suffered heart attacks and one a rapid blood pressure loss rewiring medical attention. I was not present at any of these but apparently the other members stepped in quickly to help and call for assistance. In the case of the rapid blood pressure loss the fellow had fainted while sitting down falling onto the table in the crib room. Our crib room has large windows that look out into the main shed, one of the members noticed he didn't look right and went to take a look and then called for assistance. Members do look out for one another not just for medical issue but on others as well. From that point of view this is a good shed - somehow we need to ;ever off this in the safety area.

  16. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Munruben, Qld
    Age
    79
    Posts
    10,028

    Default

    Well what a can of worms this thread has opened up. Firstly let me say I am a shed leader in my area and we are a member of the AMSA and I was very concerned about my liability should something happen in our shed. I wrote to the AMSA and asked if insurance covered me in the event that a shed member was injured in the shed while using a machine and using a technique I had instructed him to use which in my mind is the safest way I know how to use that machine for a particular cut; my letter was forwarded to the insurance company who I guess AMSA use for its members and I received a reply from the actual insurance company advising that I am covered if such an incident occurred. My shed is funded by a not for profit organisation and the shed is completely run by unpaid,, volunteer members.

    As someone mentioned in an earlier post, there are now well over 900 sheds in Australia and with all the legal assumptions made here in this thread, not one post quotes evidence of a shed committee member or supervisor in a shed, being sued and losing all his assets. The Men sheds have been going for quite some time now and as far as I can see, not one person has come forward with concrete evidence of someone losing everything they own due to their being taken to court over the matters mentioned here. Most of these posts are based on supposition and even lawyers apparently don't know the full ramifications involved. Lets face it, if we concerned ourselves with every time we can be held responsible for something we do when we go out of our home; we probably wouldn't leave the safety of our home. We can justify most things using scare tactics and legal jargon of bush lawyers but in reality not one person has cited a legal case that involved a men shed or a men shed supervisor or member. I agree from experience in my local men shed, it is very difficult to make someone do what they dont want to do and that is the real issue so as to prevent them injuring themselves or others in the shed. I think this is the bigger issue here and is something that can be addressed rather than making assumptions and wild claims of what may or may not happen if we are taken to court.

    I think it was stated in post 73 that one should never remove a riving knife for instance from a table saw. (I am paraphrasing) This is not always possible in some instances such as some trench cutting or using a dado blade and in these examples it is quite necessary to remove the riving knife..

    In reality a court would also take into account the age of the person injured and most shed members are old and in their late 60s and some much older; I doubt there would be pay-outs of hundreds of thousands of dollars for us oldies. Am I really worth that much? hope it doesn't give someone ideas.
    Reality is no background music.
    Cheers John

Similar Threads

  1. Mens Shed Charter
    By MAPLEMAN in forum MEN'S SHEDS / MEN IN SHEDS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 17th Oct 2015, 12:26 PM
  2. whyalla mens shed
    By kevinwhy in forum MEN'S SHEDS / MEN IN SHEDS
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 27th Sep 2015, 11:32 AM
  3. New Mens Shed
    By colbra in forum MEN'S SHEDS / MEN IN SHEDS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 18th Dec 2011, 11:33 PM
  4. mens shed toy car
    By Hammo13 in forum MEN'S SHEDS / MEN IN SHEDS
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 25th Nov 2011, 02:51 PM
  5. mens shed toy car
    By underfoot in forum TOY MAKING
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 28th Apr 2011, 10:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •