Thread: Beginner bench questions!

Second question first:

I wouldn't use a metal topped bench for woodworking. The lack of friction could become an issue, not to mention that most metal top working surfaces, in an effort to be liftable, are made from something flimsy and thin which, over time, will deform. This cannot be fixed. Also, you don't really want to be able to easily lift your workbench alone. If you can, then that means that through any number of woodworking operations, you will likely be able to slide it around when you don't want to. However, the most important reason would be for the potential it would have to damage your tools. Sitting a plane on a wooden bench with the blade out a thousandth of an inch isn't going to do anything to either the bench or the plane. Sitting it on a metal surface will dull the blade, especially if it gets knocked around etc. Also, it's only a matter of time before you catch the bench with a chisel, plane, rasp, etc. A wooden bench is just kind of an "oh darn" moment, but with a metal bench that's half an hour of grinding and honing lost, not to mention however much material you have to remove from the blade to get it back into clean metal where it can be sharpened.

As far as work bench styles, I think the style of my bench is a "Traditional European" style and I'm a huge fan. It has an end vise which also forms an extension of the table top, a fixed row of (typically square) bench dogs, and either a front vise or a shoulder vise on the user's off-hand, front corner. I certainly recommend looking into it. It was made popular by a guy named Frank Klaus back a couple of decades ago and I'm fairly certain you can find a plan to build one online.

Now let me address something I said in that paragraph... Frank Klaus managed to make a WORKBENCH DESIGN (of all things) popular. This is testament to the fact that, just like social media hashtags, the Kardashians, and salted caramel desserts, anything can be trendy. I think right now it's safe to say that Christopher Schwarz has made the Roubo style bench trendy. This does NOT mean that through some kind of human cognitive evolution there has been a collective epiphany among woodworkers that the Roubo bench is in some way fundamentally better. It is literally just trendy right now and, for some people, maybe the best option. In the end, it's all about taking which concepts work for you and deciding which to apply to your workbench. For example, I know myself well enough to have anticipated that if I built a workbench with a tool tray that would be a catastrophic organizational failure.

Anyway, best of luck. Post updates!

Cheers,
Luke

There is no "one right type of bench". we all have different requirements and methods depending on what we do, how well we do it, our budgets, space restrictions and many other factors. Both the Klausz and Roubo style benches are good and have their advantages and disadvantages. Each is a compromise and you need to look at your needs and pick one.

As a woodworker, I find that I need to do a lot of metalwork, but I do not do them on the same bench. Too many unfortunate things are bound to happen. As Luke explained so well a metal surface is unsuitable for woodworking. If you use a timber surface for metalworking, that is ok up to a point, but do not try woodworking on it after metalworkng. The surface will be full of metal filings which will mar the surface of your timber and damage your tools.

Hope this helps

Doug

Metal working is super messy, grit from angle grinders, oil and grease, swarf and if you weld it gets worse with welding spatter and ferociously hard slag etc.
I'd be keeping all this well away from a wood work bench.

I occasionally do two types of MW on my WW bench and that is brass and Al work.
They can be cut with WW tools and the swarf is soft enough not to damage WW blades, all other work gets done on a special MW bench or my intermediate bench.
I use meths as a cutting lube and as that evaporates it leaves no residue.

Tip - rawhide leather lined vice jaws are useful for WW and softer MW as hardened steel jaws easily mark mild steel, Al and Brass. Plain wood is too slippery.

I have been spoilt in the past and will be again in having a workshop that is a barn larger than my house. This was/will be again divided into distinct work areas for car storage, car rebuilding, engine and drivetrain building, metalwork, metal machining, woodwork prep and assembly, and woodwork finishing. I learnt a long time ago not to mix things that use/produce moisture, metalic/abrasive dust, metal swarf, sawdust etc with areas used for storage or finishing, and I definitely won't do things that allow metal dust, fillings, swarf, etc cross the divide and enter woodwork areas or let woodwork waste get near metalworking, metal machining, or engine building areas for all of the obvious reasons mentioned above.

I am currently on a break for 18months as we sold our former house and land for units, dismantled the megashed and moved it to our future home site, where it is patiently waiting for the builders to start building the new home, after which it can be re-erected and set up again in similar fashion.

I have seen metalwork dust extractors burn after sucking in metal sparks and dust (normal role) because someone sanded some timber during lunchbreak and had wood dust in the extractor bin. I know a doctor who was a mechanical genius who lost his workshops, two restored vintage cars, a historic racecar, his milling machine and lathes and all his woodworking gear (timber framed vintage cars) because he lost discipline when hurrying to get a job done and started grinding in the woodwork shop, grinding sparks set fine wood dust that had accumulated on fire and burnt down a workshop complex as large as mine. He suffered 1st and 2nd degree burns to his hands and scalp trying to get vehicles etc out of the building when it became obvious that he couldn't control the fire himself.

I suggest if at all possible that you don't mix metalwork and woodwork at the same bench or in the same room.

I have had the belt sander fire thing happen when I ground a bit of steel on the sander usually used for wood. It was fortunate I had not used the extractor or that would have set of the drum of sawdust. When I noticed smoke I had to haul the sander outside quick smart. Could have been very bad. I am now a lot more aware of the risks of using powered tools on metal in a woodworking space.
That said there is still some crossover that is hard to avoid. I have only one drill press that is mostly for wood but sometimes have to drill metal so care has to be taken. Sharpening turning tools is another fire risk so if you have to walk a bit to the grinder then thats better than lighting up the pile of shavings around the lathe. Any angle grinding I do outside. I do some hand tool metal work on my bench with file and hacksaw and saw sharpening. I have mounted a metal vice to a board that clamps to the bench when I need it. I would prefer a separate metalwork station but don't have the space. All up we do what we do in our sheds but like most of the others have said wood and metal working do not live easily in the same space.
Regards
John

Luke mentioned Christopher Schwarz in his well-thought out reply to you. I have found Schwarz book The workbench design book to be very readable and quite entertaining. Whilst it is true that Schwarz tends to favour the Roubo style bench he includes a wide range of designs and ideas that are worth thinking about. One very big limitation is that since Schwarz is from N America he talks almost entirely about the timbers available there - but since those aren't available here it can be a bit misleading. For example the range of timbers available to you in NZ is probably very different from N America and from here in Australia. I do not know the densities of the N American timbers, but from the section sizes that Schwarz uses it seems they may be less dense than Australian hardwoods. I should look up my reference books, but have not done so! In Aus we are blessed with some excellent heavy and dense eucalypts, which make great benches. I don't know what you will have available in NZ but you need to take into account the mass and density of the wood to ensure that your workbench is solid and heavy enough to stay still when planing, sawing etc.

I purchased my copy of Christopher Schwarz book from Book Depository in the UK (http://www.bookdepository.com/). They have low prices and free worldwide, prompt postage so may be a good source if your local library does not have the book. (I have no affiliation with them).

As I mentioned in another thread asking for advice, the answer is:

"It Depends"

A bench for those who will be primarily power tool woodworkers may have significantly different characteristics in their bench than for for those who want to use hand tools.
The Schwarz designs (and they are not all so called Robou designs, he also promotes traditional english designs as well) are biased toward hand tool use.
For power tool designs, consider the New Fangled Work Bench - see here
Or Ron Paulks bench design - see here
Or Bob Lang's 21st Century Workbench design is good for hybrid woodworker - see here

For a hand tool bench, mass is your friend. Although still a factor to consider, it's less important for power tool use.

The books by Chris Schwarz are good, but if you have time you can get most of the same information from his blog posts at Popular WoodWorking Magazine website. An important point he makes is that your workbench is basically a big clamp, and you shouldn't try to add features (e.g. cupboards, drawers etc) that interfere with its use as such - and the bench has to be able to hold boards securely to allow you to easily work on the faces, edges and ends of these.

This link has a 4 page article on "Rules for Workbenches" - it has some very good advice.

Personally, I would not try & mix woodwork & metalwork on the same bench unless space was extraordinarily tight. If you must do thgis, I would make an auxiliary metal clad top for the woodwork bench & put it on when you want to do any metal work. I had a very small shop & used a 1800mm long 300mm x 75mm hardwood plank that I clad with some flat gal flashing & attached to a wall as a very successful metalwork bench. It had two 100mm square hardwood legs supporting the front & had my metalwork vice bolted to it at one end, and was very solid. But my metalworking was for small to medium projects.

Try & decide what sort of woodworking you plan to do, then choose a design that seems to fit. And don't sweat it too much, you will probably build one and then keep tweaking it. And you will probably build at least one more once you really know what works for you.

P.S. Common beginner workbench mistakes - see this article

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

Luke mentioned Christopher Schwarz in his well-thought out reply to you. I have found Schwarz book The workbench design book to be very readable and quite entertaining. Whilst it is true that Schwarz tends to favour the Roubo style bench he includes a wide range of designs and ideas that are worth thinking about. One very big limitation is that since Schwarz is from N America he talks almost entirely about the timbers available there - but since those aren't available here it can be a bit misleading. For example the range of timbers available to you in NZ is probably very different from N America and from here in Australia. I do not know the densities of the N American timbers, but from the section sizes that Schwarz uses it seems they may be less dense than Australian hardwoods. I should look up my reference books, but have not done so! In Aus we are blessed with some excellent heavy and dense eucalypts, which make great benches. I don't know what you will have available in NZ but you need to take into account the mass and density of the wood to ensure that your workbench is solid and heavy enough to stay still when planing, sawing etc.

one point that Chris makes time and time again when talking about wood for benches is to buy whatever is local and low cost. To quote Chris:

Any wood (even plywood) can be used to make a bench. The material should be cheap, easy to get, heavy (if possible), dry-ish and heavy (if possible). After a few years of use, your bench will look like every other used bench – beat up, broke in and awesome.

Where Chris lives (in the US) this is Southern Yellow Pine. In Australia, this would be whatever your local timber yard or big hardware store carries

Another blog post from Chris on wood or benches https://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/0...d-workbenches/

Don't discount Pine as a bench material too readily. In NZ (& much of Aust.) P. radiata will be readily available in generous sizes. It belongs to the 'Southern Yellow" group and is relatively hard & dense. I've made a couple of benches from it that were solid & plenty heavy enough for practical purposes. One thing I have to say about it is that it's a bit easier to work with than Spotted Gum and Ironbark!

Cheers,

Ian,
Vote no 2 for P.Radiata. I made my bench top from laminated, de-nailed, 90 by 45's from the tip! Very heavy, and works well.
Cheers, Redbog

Originally Posted by Redbog

.... I made my bench top from laminated, de-nailed, 90 by 45's from the tip!..

Waydergo Redbog. Scrounged/recycled material is great fodder for benches. Yours certainly looks solid enough to do the job!

As it happens, I spent the afternoon milling up some radiata for a bench for SWMBO to put in our newly-refinished garage. These were rough billets I free-handed out of the butt of a very large radiata that had to come down because it was a threat to the house. It's not as heavy as any Eucalypt, but after bandsawing it into more managable chunks and feeding it to the jointer & tablesaw to make 75 x 80mm legs & some sturdy stretchers, my body is telling m it was heavy enough!

Cheers,