Thread: Building A Work Table/Bench without a Worktable/Bench to build it on...

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I was going to say I could fill the bolt holes and cap the countersinks for an extra 25mm?

I don't see where that is? If it works though do it.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Your front jaw looks thicker than 65?

Just guessing. It may be 75 or more? Ill check tomorrow.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I haven't brought any dogs yet, you mean making them out of timber?.

Yeah Timber . Ive been using timber ones on my workbench since I built it . They are good. They Occasionally need attention or replacing. Ive also got two heavy duty steel ones but never need to use them.

Ok thanks Rob. I'm off to kip!.

Today I cut out the back so I can move the vise flush with the legs & table top. Doing this meant I had to plug the bolt holes and countrer sinks, drill new holes and remount the vise plate.. I now have an extra 18mm which now brings it upto 335mm without the 25mm back cheek and ??mm jaws.

Should I glue the back cheek on or screw it on?, if I'm drilling from the back I would need to go through 90mm rail and leg.

Measured my vise fronts today Sam. About 72 I think for the hardwood and almost 78 mm for the Jarrah.
65 to 70mm would be ok though if you wanted to go less.
I think I'd just glue that back face on . Doesn't have to be all over . Even just 5 dabs would work. If its ply Id put a cap of solid on top for the look of it.
If I was screwing it on Id do it from the front and just make sure the heads are under the surface a little. you could have other backs made up ready to use then as well .

Sometimes I wish I had sandpaper faces so nothing slips around . Other times soft jaws like leather or felt . Rubber even . Making some slip in ones is probably a good idea. Ive never got around to it though.

Originally Posted by auscab

Measured my vise fronts today Sam. About 72 I think for the hardwood and almost 78 mm for the Jarrah.
65 to 70mm would be ok though if you wanted to go less.

Thanks for measuring that for me Rob, I'll be using solid white oak for the back cheek and the jaws & I'll probably make the jaws about 75mm.

Originally Posted by auscab

I think I'd just glue that back face on . Doesn't have to be all over . Even just 5 dabs would work.

Reason I asked is because of the grain direction of the legs which will be opposite to that of the back cheek.

Originally Posted by auscab

If I was screwing it on Id do it from the front and just make sure the heads are under the surface a little. you could have other backs made up ready to use then as well .

Is your back cheek screwed on?.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Is your back cheek screwed on?.

Down through the top I'm pretty sure. With big coach screws or nuts and bolts ? It was a long time ago that it was done.

I'm waiting for some router bits to arrive before I can continue with the design of the chop so I decided I might as well plod on and mill some white oak for the chop. I have one solid piece which came out just over 50mm, then I milled a couple of others which weren't as thick.

For a while now I've been using various prices of scrap to feed into the paner to move the snipe, however today I picked a couple of pieces that had some old worn finish on them. Now to me the wood looked like tassy oak under the finish so I was expecting them to be lighter in shade when the finish was removed by the planer but they came out like this:

IMG_9245.jpg

To my untrained eye this doesn't look tassy oak... so if its not tassy oak, what is it?. Suffice to say, I used some other scrap timber.

Anyway here's a picture of the chop for the vise (still in two pieces) , the back cheek is the one that's behind the chop.

IMG_9247.jpg

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I'm waiting for some router bits to arrive before I can continue with the design of the chop


IMG_9247.jpg

Moulding and shaping . A subject I get into deep.
The shaping on the ends Sam. That could be done with just a chisel and scrapers. I think I did mine with a rebate plane a chisel and a scraper or two and a moulding plane. I probably also used the radial arm saw or table saw for faster waste removal in the hollows. You don't have to have them to do it though. You want to find some old used cheap plastic handled saws to cut into scraper shapes. But you need an angle grinder to break them down. You can do such a lot of good stuff with them. And they could help get you any shape you need.
A router will do a great job of trimming waste away. And maybe even landing dead on the shape you want. But I doubt that on such a large shape/moulding. I would call them a shaped end . Its also a moulding but its also a bit short . It has to be done in steps so your still needing at least scrapers or moulding planes and scrapers. Otherwise a ton of sanding end grain .
A good idea to aim for though is not to let the router bit shapes dictate the design. I never, or very rarely do that . Doing that immediately sets a piece well ahead of an off the shelf router bit shape which are never quite right. I'm not thinking this is what you are about to do exactly. I don't know what your doing so Im "just saying" here.
Having moulding planes of course is a giant step forward towards that but I can understand why people don't go that far into what is a hobby. They can be got in small steps though and a few of mid size ones will get a person a long way because getting out to the smaller and larger sizes in the sets, they are only used mainly on more rarely done moulding procedures.
When you look back at early English furniture, the mouldings you see made on pre Queen Anne period things roughly ( The age of Oak) were not made with moulding planes. Makers were making their own and then moulding plane business only stated around the Queen Anne time roughly. Before that it was chisels scrapers and Scratch Stocks mostly. Scratch stocks being just a method of holding a scraper basically.

Here's some stuff I like to look at when fixing / restoring peoples pieces.
These are smaller scratch stock mouldings on two Oak Coffers . No moulding planes here.
You can see the way a scratch stock in the third picture leaves the marks only a scratch stock can do . It does a wobble and all the shapes in that chanel mould in the middle of the stile do the same. A Chanel or Channel ( not sure of spelling. Being lazy ) mould is a moulding in the middle section of a rail or stile.

IMG_2203a.jpg IMG_2206a.jpg IMG_2206aa.jpg

This one below you can see how a scratch stock is used to sweep in and out to form a moulding on the Rail (horizontal) and Stile (vertical) in red on the second and third picture . Only a scratch stock can do that. Or a complex router/spindle moulder jig.
I always though that looked a bit slack. It was done a lot.
Third picture yellow are marks left be the smoothing plane in the panel. Its always interesting to see such things from so long ago.

IMG_5449a.jpg IMG_5444a.jpg IMG_5451a.jpg

I'm getting a bit involved and away from your shaped ends . I'm just trying to point out that a lot can be done with chisels and scrapers and a little more time and get spectacular results.

On a larger shape like you want I'm also not saying to try and use a scratch stock. When rough shaping with a chisel or router or saw even , a curved scraper used in a traversing angled method in a roughed out concave hollow will level it out where you want . A rebate plane or a chisel will do 99% of the round convex shapes and a hollow scraper traversed at an angle will finish that off ready to sand a little. All this works good on hardwoods like Oak . It can be a bit harder doing the same on a softwood though.

A bit of ranting done .
Now I'm off to get my router ready for six drawers that need waste removed on the hand cut dovetails .

Rob

Some seriously good information there Rob, especially about making the scrapers!.

Originally Posted by auscab

Moulding and shaping . A subject I get into deep.
The shaping on the ends Sam. That could be done with just a chisel and scrapers.

The two vertical sides of the back cheek are done using an mdf template. The chop at the moment is in two parts, ones 50mm thick & the other is about 25-30mm. I haven't got a flush trim bit long enough to cut 50mm deep so I've ordered one. I know I could get through it bit by bit & flipping it but I had an excuse to buy more router bits so I opted to do that, any excuse!...

Originally Posted by auscab

A good idea to aim for though is not to let the router bit shapes dictate the design.

Yep, I'm the same, a good set of straight bits, coves & round overs can get you where you want but sometimes its hard to find the exact radius or angle, so I'm very grateful of your insight and how you do it.

Originally Posted by auscab

I don't know what your doing so Im "just saying" here.

I don't know what I'm doing either, its an odd one because usually I'll have at least an idea, so I'm having to experiment abit on scrap...

Originally Posted by auscab

IMG_2203a.jpg

Abit off track but I found a couple of silver coins stuck in an oak beam at my moms cottage with that exact date, one was William III groat and the other Elizabeth I sixpence, I can't remember which coin had that date on though.

Originally Posted by auscab

This one below you can see how a scratch stock is used to sweep in and out to form a moulding on the Rail (horizontal) and Stile (vertical) in red on the second and third picture . Only a scratch stock can do that. Or a complex router/spindle moulder jig.
I always though that looked a bit slack. It was done a lot.
Third picture yellow are marks left be the smoothing plane in the panel. Its always interesting to see such things from so long ago.

IMG_5449a.jpg IMG_5444a.jpg IMG_5451a.jpg

I really need to get some decent books on old English furniture, all this sort of stuff facinates me no end.

Originally Posted by auscab

A bit of ranting done .
Now I'm off to get my router ready for six drawers that need waste removed on the hand cut dovetails .

Rob

Rob, you'll be suprised at how many people around the world actually enjoy reading you're ranting on posts!.

Rob, am I going about this correctly?, I'm routing end grain into the shape of this:

IMG_9251.jpg IMG_9252.jpg IMG_9253.jpg

Or should I just be making the moulding from separate stock and gluing it in place?. I chose to
do it like this because I didn't know if it was a wise thing to glue moulding to end grain?...

I'll stop at this point until I gain some advice from you.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Rob, am I going about this correctly?, I'm routing end grain into the shape of this:

Yeah that's the way Sam. Looks good.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Or should I just be making the moulding from separate stock and gluing it in place?. I chose to
do it like this because I didn't know if it was a wise thing to glue moulding to end grain?...

That's not a good idea, It wouldn't last.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I'll stop at this point until I gain some advice from you.

I seem to be throwing everything at this, router, chisels, saws, jigsaw, sand paper, rasps, sand paper & kitchen sink, I didn't realise how hard white oak is!.

Does anyone feel it may be too elaborate for a vise chop?.

no way, I am enjoying and learning from the banter.
Also I like to see others make mistakes (and I am still waiting ) before I show mine