Thread: Building A Work Table/Bench without a Worktable/Bench to build it on...

Originally Posted by auscab

Its looking great Sam .

But Why this grain direction on the beams ?

Ah yeah, I thought that if it expands it wont expand upwards causing it to be uneven. Should I make some new ones with the grain in the opposite direction?.

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The thought did cross my mind about that so - thanks Rob.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Ah yeah, I thought that if it expands it wont expand upwards causing it to be uneven. Should I make some new ones with the grain in the opposite direction?.

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The thought did cross my mind about that so - thanks Rob.

The top will expand and contract a little . Seal it to slow it down . Both sides if you can. Just seal what you can on the underside if your going to try that . Or take it off and seal the whole under side if you want. If you put a dab of glue in the middle of the top between top and the new beams, the grain running right way . And three screws. one in the middle with the glue , two at the ends , It'll be better . Way stronger If your going to be using the top to clamp things down to where it may be under pressure in the middle . Like mine gets all the time .

I have a specially made clamp and I was by chance using it today on a table top . I should have taken a picture of it . Can do tomorrow if you like. Its use needs the bracing I'm talking about on the under side of your top though. Which makes that top design important.
Ill will do some pics tomorrow to show you . Its a game changer for making things where you want to veneer the middle of a top . And its a game changer for doing repairs and restoration on things where veneers are being pressed or splits and cracks are being repaired where no other way of clamping is possible .

Did I put a picture up of it veneering a top before on your other thread ? I don't think I did .
Where was that other thread ?

Originally Posted by auscab

The top will expand and contract a little . Seal it to slow it down . Both sides if you can. Just seal what you can on the underside if your going to try that . Or take it off and seal the whole under side if you want.

Yep, I'll be taking the top off to seal both sides. Shellac or Polyurethane?

Originally Posted by auscab

If you put a dab of glue in the middle of the top between top and the new beams, the grain running right way . And three screws. one in the middle with the glue , two at the ends , It'll be better . Way stronger If your going to be using the top to clamp things down to where it may be under pressure in the middle . Like mine gets all the time .

Is it ok to use bolts instead of screws?. That's what I've done with the middle. If so then I should I just add another two bolts to each beam?.

Originally Posted by auscab

I have a specially made clamp and I was by chance using it today on a table top . I should have taken a picture of it . Can do tomorrow if you like.

Thanks Rob much appreciated, also can you PM me your number again as I can't find it on my phone.

Originally Posted by auscab

Its use needs the bracing I'm talking about on the under side of your top though. Which makes that top design important.

You mean the two bracing beams on the table?.

Originally Posted by auscab

Ill will do some pics tomorrow to show you . Its a game changer for making things where you want to veneer the middle of a top . And its a game changer for doing repairs and restoration on things where veneers are being pressed or splits and cracks are being repaired where no other way of clamping is possible .

Thanks so much Rob, I look forward to your post tomorrow. I'm really grateful to learn from your vast experience and others on here.

Originally Posted by auscab

Did I put a picture up of it veneering a top before on your other thread ? I don't think I did .
Where was that other thread ?

No I don't think you did: Need to make a Workbench - Advice Needed

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Yep, I'll be taking the top off to seal both sides. Shellac or Polyurethane?

Both will work . I some times do tops with Poly then shellac and do the under side with Titebond glue with colour mixed in . When its dry then some poly . What ever, just stop it breathing .

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Is it ok to use bolts instead of screws?. That's what I've done with the middle. If so then I should I just add another two bolts to each beam?.

Bolts are good . They need to at least be fixed at three points . Bolts or screws.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Thanks Rob much appreciated, also can you PM me your number again as I can't find it on my phone.

Yep

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

You mean the two bracing beams on the table?.

Yes . If you ever want to clamp to it like I'm talking about the middle of the top has to resist flexing down and be good at not moving. Otherwise the work your clamping ends up warped as it dries and stays that way. The simple act of adding good bracing gives you a work table that does things normal standard tables wont do. You might never build or repair the things that can be done on such a table but if you do you will be glad you added the two beams the right way.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Thanks so much Rob, I look forward to your post tomorrow. I'm really grateful to learn from your vast experience and others on here.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

No I don't think you did: Need to make a Workbench - Advice Needed

No I didn't . I looked for the pictures on my phone and Ive deleted most of them . The end result and one picture of clamping is there . That's all .

I call this clamp my Bridge clamp. I made it with some steel and a length of thread and a nut . I can use it on a table top when that top has the problem of lifted veneers in the center . like in the middle of Victorian Walnut veneered tables . Its a common repair. Flowers and vases placed in the middle of antique veneered table tops need repairs. Re pressing the repairs flat is a good way to fix them . The distance to the middle needs such a clamp.

Same Bridge clamp is also good used on a work table with good bracing as a veneer press. You can press veneers onto table tops or panels where normal clamps wont reach. The clamp is clamped either side of the work table on raised blocks.

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You could also use a beam of wood and a block like this .

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The main thing is your work table doesn't flex. Enough pressure and the top will flex . Its better if the clamp flexes first though.

This is pressing sawn Walnut 5mm veneers down to a ply panel for the center of a table top that will end up with a thick mitred edge of Oak. Poly glue that sets in 15 minutes means I had 15 minutes to hand plane each piece to fit before moving the clamp.
If the work table flexes while doing this the table top I'm making will stay dished.
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That's the finished table top. It was fed through under the clamp to press the square walnut pieces. Then surrounded by strips of Elm , Sycamore Oak and Sycamore before the final solid mitred edge was fixed on .
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Coffee table top pressed with same clamp on the work table.
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If I was pressing sliced veneers onto a top I wouldn't be using this press method . It only suits workshop made Sawn veneers that are thicker and being laid in sections which is a much higher quality job than sliced veneering. It has some design advantages over sliced veneer work .
Doing it sliced you need to make up the pattern to be laid and tape it all together and then press it down in one go on a huge press.

I have a press to do that as well . It'll do 1.2 x 2.4 .

If possible I much prefer using this method on a decent work table though.

So Sam . The small amount of extra work of bracing your top so you can clamp like this is worth doing IMHO .
When I fitted my top I screwed through the 4 braces fixing them to the work table base . Then My table top was screwed through the top down onto the braces with counter sunk holes that were filled later.

I also added a thin plywood sheet under the braces and that space also serves to hold my sharpening stones and catch anything that falls through the dog holes and stops it going into the drawers below.

Rob

Thanks Rob, Had a late start so I'm still at it in the workshop, will post my progress later

Originally Posted by auscab

I call this clamp my Bridge clamp.
IMG_1218.jpg

Love it!, gotta make me one of those for the table. Am I right in thinking, unless the table is designed like ours you can't use a bridge clamp like that due to the stresses?.

Originally Posted by auscab

If I was pressing sliced veneers onto a top I wouldn't be using this press method . It only suits workshop made Sawn veneers that are thicker and being laid in sections which is a much higher quality job than sliced veneering.

So when you say thicker veneers, you mean like on the legs of my table which are 5-7mm thick?. If that's the case then I can quite happily veneer legs like that all day. Awesome.

Originally Posted by auscab

The small amount of extra work of bracing your top so you can clamp like this is worth doing IMHO .

Agreed, I'll be finishing it off tomorrow. I'll post my progress log below for anyone who's been following.

Originally Posted by auscab

I also added a thin plywood sheet under the braces and that space also serves to hold my sharpening stones and catch anything that falls through the dog holes and stops it going into the drawers below.

Hmmm... I don't see that in the photo's, can you post a close up of what you mean when you get a chance?.

So after having the blackboard eraser thrown at me for the wrong grain direction on the braces I set about making some new ones. This time I modified my template slightly to round off the corners on the top part of the bracse as I plan to give the top a slight round over edge profile and it'll be in keeping with that. I then attached the braces to the base by drilling in from the top this time like Rob suggested. I've only added two screws to each brace as the middle will have a m10 bolt in the middle anyway. I then plan to add a further two bolts per brace tomorrow as instructed.

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This assembly table/bench design really is flying under the radar from what I can see. Last night I did a google image search and the only one I could find close to Robs design is this Kreg Assembly table:

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Maybe this table is intended for some other type of clamping system but personally I'm not keen on it. The RB design has so many advantages over other tables I've only started to realise the possibilities, plus it looks a whole lot more traditional.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Love it!, gotta make me one of those for the table. Am I right in thinking, unless the table is designed like ours you can't use a bridge clamp like that due to the stresses?.

Yeah it needs to be stronger than a top like on a dining table or desk . Way stronger. And you can do sliced veneer jobs but you would need the type of clamps used in a veneer press where you have three per overhead beam and a few rows of them . Mcjing sells the type of clamp needed to make those up last time I looked.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

So when you say thicker veneers, you mean like on the legs of my table which are 5-7mm thick?. If that's the case then I can quite happily veneer legs like that all day. Awesome.

Possibly with more clamps.
If I were doing those I'd be clamping them together with sash clamps in a stack .

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Hmmm... I don't see that in the photo's, can you post a close up of what you mean when you get a chance?.

You did the same . I didn't see it there before .
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Originally Posted by auscab

You did the same . I didn't see it there before .
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Yeah thats 12mm plywood.

That's looking pretty good!

Today I drilled a further 2 holes in each of the bracing beams. This time I stepped down a size and used M8 bolts instead as I think M10 was a little over kill.

IMG_E9081.jpg

I don't think the top looks too bad with the six holes in the top however I thought I'd try and make some caps to go over the top of the holes. The caps can't be permanent as the table top is modular, that's the reason its bolted down, apart from allowing for expansion it can be swapped & changed out for something like a t-track setup or dog hole grid depending on what I'm working on.

A couple of years ago I made a jig that cuts perfect circles on the table saw, nothing new I hear you say, but wait!, the one I built is adjustable so you can cut circles from table size down to 5 cent size!. Now I've never tried doing very small sizes before so I thought I'd give it a whirl, (quite literally), the thing pivots on a point!.

My original post on my circle jig: Adjustable Tablesaw Circle Cutting Jig

First thing you do is select a piece of stock, preferably something square. Then drill a hole close to the centre, this is the pivot point on which you place the stock over a screw thingy that moves in and out on some t-track and locks down via a grub screw, the stock is also locked down via a small bolt. You then move the jig back and fourth cutting off the corners of the square until you have something that resembles a hexagon, then a heptagon, ocatagon, nonagon, decagon, you get the idea!.

Here's the result:

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I'll bore the holes a little deeper so the caps can sink into the holes and be flush with the surface.

Next up is the paper holder support on the end of the table.

I changed the original plan a little to accommodate a paper holder on one end of the table. I didn't want to use screws to hold the thing in place as the two supports holding the dowel would be a weak point on the table and one slight bump and they could bend or snap off. So I decided to cut 30mm mortises on the legs.

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I should never have routed the curves on these until I had the tenons cut as it was a total pain in the backside cutting them on the tablesaw after the fact.

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Finished. Next up is the doors and drawers.

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I'll be attaching inset doors on the left side of the bench and was wondering if butt hinges would be ok to use give the fact the face frame isn't completely flat, you have the leg on the left which comes out 5mm.

Help appreciated.