Thread: Building A Work Table/Bench without a Worktable/Bench to build it on...

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The quick-release Record #52 1/2 is the classic face/end vice. ...

Vise Record.jpg [Photo: Derek C]

Sam, here a a fair discussion on the Record vise:
In Praise of Record QR Vises - Paul Sellers' Blog

If you choose to go down that path, remember the English stopped making them quite a few years ago, but there are copies available of varying quality.

There is a definite hierarchy:

1. Genuine second hand Record vice - mostly excellent,
2. Taiwanese generic copies - mostly OK,
3. Chinese generic copies - mostly crap.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Rob, I am going to argue against this design ...




Many love it, since it was made popular by Benchcrafted. But I do wonder how many dovetails they actually cut (I hope that you do not have one!! ).

The reason I write this is that, when transferring tails to the pin board, the edge of the pin board is coplanar with the front chop. Assuming that you use a knife to score the marks, you will quickly start slicing up the chop in the follow through. ...

I had the same problem, Derek, albeit with an end vise. I did not like scoring the chop when marking the pin board.

Temporary solution: Chops are consumable; tell yourself that it will be replaced and it doesn't matter. Inner voice says "crap".

Permanent solution: Put a spacer under the tail board, raise the pin board so that it is flush with the underside of the tail board, mark pin board. The knife is now sufficiently clear of the chop vertically not to mark it.

This is how I plan to make the face for the vise:

vise3.jpg vise2.jpg vise1.jpg

Will I still need to attach bread boards to the ends of the top?.

Originally Posted by auscab

Your considering screwing a vise to the endgrain top above . A vise is normally fitted to cross grain top . Which is why my table has large bread board ends. Derek has done the same but I would think he has a cross piece supporting the top behind the vise front under the top. Has he ?

No, I don't think Derek has got a bread board end on his top.

Derek have you got a breadboard end?.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

No, I don't think Derek has got a bread board end on his top.

Derek have you got a breadboard end?.

I was talking about under Dereks top . Not a BBE on his top .

Your drawings look good . You don’t necessarily need a BBE if it’s braced up underneath.
Even without bracing the cast body of that metal vise will brace a top . Better to add some more though with timber .

Originally Posted by auscab

I was talking about under Dereks top . Not a BBE on his top .

Your drawings look good . You don’t necessarily need a BBE if it’s braced up underneath.
Even without bracing the cast body of that metal vise will brace a top . Better to add some more though with timber .

Ah, now I understand. So maybe make the face that attached to the legs as thick as the legs wich is roughly 90mm?. I'll do some more examples and post 'em up.

Here's the vise mounted. Carbatec doesn't give the exact dimensions of how wide the jaws can be set, unless I'm missing something?. Anyway I've given the apron dimensions of the underside of the table in the final photo:

vise4.jpg vise5.jpg

Two things that concern me, one, I don't know what the clamping capacity will be because I cant find any dimensions, two, the back plate will only be attached to 12mm plywood, though I can make that thicker if need be.

Whats the minimum clamping capacity I should have?.

@GraemeCook, did you get the CAD file I sent you?.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

@GraemeCook, did you get the CAD file I sent you?.

No. I do some consulting, and one of my clients has imposed a very high level of security and I couldn't access your file.

No problem.

Hi Sam

I couldn't down load your drawing so I redrew it, albeit a little simplified, but it will work.

As you know, the essential parts of a woodworking vise include the fixed rear chop or cheek and the movable front cheek. They take quite high workloads and that load may be quite concentrated; cheeks have to be robust. Bending and twisting is their enemy!

Now a brief critique of your drawing.

Your fixed rear cheek effectively consists of five component parts, which I have numbered:

• Two legs - #1 & 2,
• Two pieces of rail - #3 & 4, and
• End of top - #5.

Sam - Parts 1.jpg Sam's Drawing

In my view, this arrangement is subject to flex or bending at the intersections of all components. These are stress points.

May I suggest that you consider putting a fixed rear cheek, say 25 mm thick, in front of your existing arrangemeet. This will then spread the load across all five component parts and eliminate those stress points.

Sam - Parts 2.jpg Graeme's simplified drawing

Sam - Parts 3.jpg Full width fixed cheek added

Sam - Parts 4.jpg Mobile front cheek added

The mobile front cheek may be full width or customised as in your drawing. The extra thickness of the fixed cheek will reduce the opening capacity of the vise, but this can be minimised by partly recessing the steel vice mechanism into the rails.

Hope this makes sense.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Hi Sam

I couldn't down load your drawing so I redrew it, albeit a little simplified, but it will work.

As you know, the essential parts of a woodworking vise include the fixed rear chop or cheek and the movable front cheek. They take quite high workloads and that load may be quite concentrated; cheeks have to be robust. Bending and twisting is their enemy!

Now a brief critique of your drawing.

Your fixed rear cheek effectively consists of five component parts, which I have numbered:

• Two legs - #1 & 2,
• Two pieces of rail - #3 & 4, and
• End of top - #5.

Sam - Parts 1.jpg Sam's Drawing

In my view, this arrangement is subject to flex or bending at the intersections of all components. These are stress points.

May I suggest that you consider putting a fixed rear cheek, say 25 mm thick, in front of your existing arrangemeet. This will then spread the load across all five component parts and eliminate those stress points.

Sam - Parts 2.jpg Graeme's simplified drawing

Sam - Parts 3.jpg Full width fixed cheek added

Sam - Parts 4.jpg Mobile front cheek added

The mobile front cheek may be full width or customised as in your drawing. The extra thickness of the fixed cheek will reduce the opening capacity of the vise, but this can be minimised by partly recessing the steel vice mechanism into the rails.

Hope this makes sense.

Hi Graeme, Firstly thanks for taking the time to put this reply and drawings together, it's very easy to understand and makes sense. I just received the vice and can now see where I'm at with the measurements, I'll take your drawings and see what it looks like.

I have a question. Should the threaded rod be in the centre of the chops?, as the vice I have has
the threaded rod off centre of the two steel rods and front plate:

IMG_9201.jpg

I've since found out its off centre so to allow vertical clamping, however it doesn't say whether you mount the front plate in the centre of the chop?.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I have a question. Should the threaded rod be in the centre of the chops?, as the vice I have has
the threaded rod off centre of the two steel rods and front plate:

IMG_9201.jpg

Essentially, yes. It is the first line of defence against racking.

If you put a piece of timber towards the outside edgen of a vise and tighten it, then everything may twist a little and, counter-intuitively the amount of grip will deteriorate as you increase pressure. The situation (above) when the front cheek is not parallel to the fixed cheek is call racking. A big part of vise design, installation and use technique is to minimise racking.

Simplest solution is to put a pressure equalisation block on the other side of the vise jaws.

Here is an explanation and one person's solution. I just use a series of chocks - make a new one when needed.
https://www.google.com/search?client...4-EPoYeR-A0_42

Sam, may I suggest that you read up on racking, and come back when you know what questions to ask?