Thread: Multifunction table (MFT)

I have the Parfguide v2 - it may be slow but it is an infrequent job and the speed ramps up with a larger area.

Something I think would make a LOT of sense would be a loan or buy-back possibility, or a good system of borrowing. If you could rent it for a weekend for $50 (the only parts that seem liable to wear are the drill bits - I think he addresses this in one video) it would be great.

It seems worthwhile noting that I can't really see a need for such dead-on precision other than to use with a track. Tracks can very fiddly to use for smaller pieces because of the need to support the track with enough stock (you can support the track with the same thickness stock, but you need enough stock to grip or clamp the track.

Can't think of any need for such precision if it was just an assembly / odds and ends / finishing table?

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Chris

I suspect that our posts crossed as I did provide reasons for issues with the links provided.

Here is a video with a UJK parf. This will illustrate how time consuming/fiddly it is ...



And here is the other jig being used ...



Verses the Trend ...




Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by pippin88

I'm not sure this is correct. The outside diameter of the bushing is what matters. The bushing wall thickness could be 0.1mm or 10mm and it will not make a difference to the size of the circle generated. It is the outside of the bushing that contacts the template.

The difference in size between the bushing outer diameter, and the size of the router bit does affect the size of the final hole generated.

So, when using the bushing tracing a template technique, to achieve an accurate final nominal size hole (e.g. 20mm dog hole), you need:
Template accurately sized
Bushing accurately sized
Bushing circular
Router bit accurately sized (and appropriately sized in relation to the bushing)
Template firmly clamped and unable to move in relation to the work piece.

For using a bushing to locate a router for plunging
Template accurately sized (e.g. 30mm) (otherwise there will be play between the template and bushing)
Bushing accurately sized (otherwise there will be play between the template and bushing)
Router bit accurately sized (if it's not 20mm, the dog holes ain't going to be 20mm)

(I can see why the plunge approach is attractive, as may be more likely to result in a perfectly round hole, and less issues of template moving potentially, as forces are plunging down mainly, not side to side).

At the end of the day, there does need to be a little clearance between dogs and holes. (I know from experience that precisely sizing dogs and dog holes too closely is more trouble than it is worth as it's too hard to get them in and out, and ultimately 0.1 or 0.2mm alignment difference for most wood projects makes precisely zero difference to the end product).

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Can't think of any need for such precision if it was just an assembly / odds and ends / finishing table?

Nick, my concern with that template was that the bushing was specified as relying on a specific wall thickness (as the method involved pattern routing), and that I could not replicate this.

The Trent template uses 30mm holes for a close-fit bushing. The Trent videos show their 30mm bushing (which I have ordered) being tuned (with tape) to slip-fit the 30mm template hole, if necessary. The result is no play when plunging a 20mm router bit (also ordered).

You are no doubt absolutely correct with your figures when calculating alignment differences. However, I am less concerned with absolute accuracy (although accuracy is preferred) than with the efficiency of making up the MFT. This is a bigger factor when one makes a top in MDF, since these are consumables (they get chewed up), and then need to be replaced.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I've dug through my stock and had a think. I propose:
16mm thick MDF
6x6 grid of holes (30mm holes on 96mm centres)
Two alignment dogs (30mm one end, 20mm other end) to allow the jig to be registered to the 20mm holes made in the first setup.
No edge alignment pins / holes (I don't know that they add that much compared with carefully aligning the edges of jig and work piece. Sure if you are making a whole bunch of MFT tops you might want to save a minute or two. The MDF on I have on hand is not quite large enough, so if you want alignment pins, you would lose a row of holes).

Depiction of the above, with the base of your router for reference:

MFT Jig Draft.jpg

(Don't seem to be able to add an attachment to a private message, so posting to the thread)

Nick, that will be perfect!

Alignment does not need the pins, just careful placement and clamping for the first set of holes. So no issue here.

Your attachment (of the router base) did come through here. (For reference, if others are reading along, the router is an Elu 177e).

Many, many thanks once again.

Derek

When I made my 4 x 8 ft MFT workbench I used my actual Festool MFT top as a jig. I used a 20mm forstner bit, very carefully, to drill the holes and got a very good result. Since its a Paulk style torsion box bench the clamps work everywhere. I have dogs that are tapped M6 so any kind of bolt or knob can be screwed in to extricate them from the holes.

I used the bench to square up 26 doors and 30 shutters during assembly which worked very well. Like everyone I plan to use a styrofoam bench saver when tracksawing, but never do. When the bench gets too chopped up I just mix up some auto body filler and level that with a cabinet scraper.

I once had a beautiful bench and thought that I would again someday but this one is just too versatile to replace.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

When I made my 4 x 8 ft MFT workbench I used my actual Festool MFT top as a jig. I used a 20mm forstner bit, very carefully, to drill the holes and got a very good result. Since its a Paulk style torsion box bench the clamps work everywhere. I have dogs that are tapped M6 so any kind of bolt or knob can be screwed in to extricate them from the holes.

I used the bench to square up 26 doors and 30 shutters during assembly which worked very well. Like everyone I plan to use a styrofoam bench saver when tracksawing, but never do. When the bench gets too chopped up I just mix up some auto body filler and level that with a cabinet scraper.

I once had a beautiful bench and thought that I would again someday but this one is just too versatile to replace.

Greg, your comments reflect the reason I want to build one, and with two tops, one in the wooden bench top (for routing, sanding, etc), and another in MDF which will get eaten up (hence a template to make replacements). At present I have a section of 25mm thick foam 1200 x 600, which is available from Bunnies for about $10 (see my original post).

I can see why the MFT could get very popular. It does not require Festool equipment (with the exception of my Domino, all mine is around 20 years old, some of it badged Festo).

Regards from Perth

Derek

If you can get hold of an MFT top, even an old discarded one, you can use it as a template with the festool 20mm boring bit.

Fix the template on the new surface and, without running the router insert the bit into a hole.

Start the router and drill the hole, before retracting the bit switch off the router and then move onto another hole.

The router bit won't damage the original top as it only drills down.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

When I made my 4 x 8 ft MFT workbench I used my actual Festool MFT top as a jig. I used a 20mm forstner bit, very carefully, to drill the holes and got a very good result. Since its a Paulk style torsion box bench the clamps work everywhere. I have dogs that are tapped M6 so any kind of bolt or knob can be screwed in to extricate them from the holes.

I used the bench to square up 26 doors and 30 shutters during assembly which worked very well. Like everyone I plan to use a styrofoam bench saver when tracksawing, but never do. When the bench gets too chopped up I just mix up some auto body filler and level that with a cabinet scraper.

I once had a beautiful bench and thought that I would again someday but this one is just too versatile to replace.

I know from experience the difficulty getting dogs out when the fit is too close - go in ok but won't come out.

I also have my dogs with a central tapped M8 hole it allow extrication if too tight, and also allows securing a dog in place with a knob from below.

I have made two 30/20mm alignment dogs for Derek tonight. I thought I'd get away without the middle hole, but then the 19.9mm dog would not come out of the test dog hole (my dog holes are slightly undersized and I do have a reamer to get them to standard the size but haven't got round to it because I've made my own dogs that fit) -> drilled and tapped the rescue hole and got it out fine. Subsequently tested in reamed hole and it's a good snug fit...

The parts will be functional Derek, but not necessarily the prettiest.

Originally Posted by pippin88

...

The parts will be functional Derek, but not necessarily the prettiest.

Nick, I am not sure if I believe this! Form follows function, and you have been meticulous in your planning. Execution simply follows

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Greg Q

When I made my 4 x 8 ft MFT workbench I used my actual Festool MFT top as a jig. I used a 20mm forstner bit, very carefully, to drill the holes and got a very good result. Since its a Paulk style torsion box bench the clamps work everywhere. I have dogs that are tapped M6 so any kind of bolt or knob can be screwed in to extricate them from the holes.

I used the bench to square up 26 doors and 30 shutters during assembly which worked very well. Like everyone I plan to use a styrofoam bench saver when tracksawing, but never do. When the bench gets too chopped up I just mix up some auto body filler and level that with a cabinet scraper.

I once had a beautiful bench and thought that I would again someday but this one is just too versatile to replace.

Greg, that is why I am going to build one though not a bench just a sheet of MDF I can put on a few saw horses, add dogs or fixtures and assemble projects on. I can see fixtures being handy to square and hold cabinets, doors etc Starting the cabinet and adding to the first side or back using fixtures and not needing three hands sounds like a good idea to me.