Thread: Traditional work bench - let me run some ideas past you...

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Timber choice - To my mind some fairly generic hardwoods would be perfectly appropriate.

Yep

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Tool Well - There is divided opinion on these, and I honestly don't know whether I'd use it. It would make the job of building the top harder if I didn't use end caps At this point I'm thinking no tool well.

Agree

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Hardware - I'll be making a really simple tail vice using a single screw much like Lord Nibbo's here, with a few changes to suit me. The big question for me is; front vice or shoulder vi

I have a removable one - see here.

It's real nice to use when you need it but have only used it about 5 times in 2 years. I know I would use it more if I made more furniture but it seems to have limited use in tool making. I use my leather faced big front vice a lot more than I though I would - for example hold bits of brass or wood so they don't get mangled. I comes down to what you are going to do.

Bob

Agree with your thoughts on the hardwood but not the lack of a well.
The well serves the very useful, and probably necessary, purpose of holding and protecting your tools. This is especially so for anything sharp that you don't want to roll onto the floor. it is also handy for storing nails and screws etc., etc.
As for vises you have plenty of info from Bobl and Lord nibbo.

Good one Bob! I'm sure I can think up a method for retrofitting a removable shoulder vice.... yep, that's a winner

Thanks for your thoughts artme, I'm still considering the tool well. I'm used to walking around my current bench, but obviously the new one will be used primarily from one side only. This is a bit of a foreign concept to me, but I imaging some tool storage and a well may be useful once I get my head around it.

I've been having a look around at front vice hardware, but so far I'm not convinced. I might have a go at constructing a large twin screw front vice myself I think.... still got plenty of time to think about this though, it will take me months to get the bench top laminated first

Dave.

Using threaded rod and 1" dowel to keep the top all together. Check

No tool well mean large working area. Check

Tail vice can be a challenge to make but it can be quite useful. 50/50

Front vice from CarbaTec should be OK. A record vice will be better. 50/50

How thick are the floor boards??

Dave

Best advice I can give you is to do a little research. A recent book on benches by Chisopher Schwarz is the bees knees. This will give you much to consider:

http://www.lostartpress.com/default.aspx

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Wongo

Tail vice can be a challenge to make but it can be quite useful. 50/50

Front vice from CarbaTec should be OK. A record vice will be better. 50/50

How thick are the floor boards??

The tail vice I have in mind will be extremely simple; no actual rear clamping capacity at all, just the front clamp and dogs. Very similar to Nibbo's and very simple to construct, not challenge there! Keeping it simple stupid!

I've looked at quite a few front vices and I'm leaning more and more towards a twin screw front vice and a removable shoulder vice.

The boards are all 110mm x 19mm tongue and groove which can be ripped down to 100mm wide. I'm heading out this morning to collect about 25 boards at 2.5m long.

Thanks Derek, I've already ordered "The Workbench Book" and I've been looking at Schwarz's book too. Should I order both perhaps? I'm quite comfortable with the design and construction, all I really need is ideas I think, where the Schwarz text is a little more technically focused as far as I can tell.

It has begun!

Attachment 68429
Big stack of 30 long boards, plus a few extra short ones

Attachment 68430
Some I collected last week for a repair on my dining room floor, but I only need one of those for said repair

Attachment 68431
Joints, bearers, panels, etc. There are some sizable timbers there for legs and stretches.

Unfortunatley I'll be cleaning all of the boards up with a hand plane

To the shed!

I dropped into Carbatec this morning to check out the front vice and tail vice screws; I must say that the front vice operation makes a convincing argumewnt in terms of value for money. I has a good size screw and guides, solid cast supports and comes with two seperate additional guide plates. I was considering using two of the tail vice screws to build a twin screw front vice, but having seen the play in the screw mechanism I think the standard front vice will be better for now.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I think you are right about the vise. Don't get one made in China or India. I have seen a couple of these crmble when decent pressure was applied.

You've got a lot of work tod o with that handplane! I won't keep you from it!

Another way to go about the tail vice is just to put a front vice on the end of your bench - I picked up an 6 1/2" Silex vice for $20 which I will retrofit to my bench. I reckon that you will often do better buying an old Dawn no 8 (pictured) or no 9 or Record no52 on ePay (go for a picnic to pick the thing up) for about half the price of a new one.


I made a well and I find it useful. It means that your bench is narrower, but you aren't going to use it for assembly are you, so what do you need the width for? And if you can walk around your bench, put the well in the middle - then you get two working sides of the bench and your tools don't disappear onto the floor.

Originally Posted by artme

I think you are right about the vise. Don't get one made in China or India. I have seen a couple of these crmble when decent pressure was applied.

That sort of rules out the value for money argument then; all of the Carbatec units are made in China I believe. This one I looked at this morning seems like a real winner, smooth action, tight tolerances and it certainly looks well put together. I guess only time and experience will tell, does anyone have one of these?

I have another take on this too; 'apply appropriate quality'. The very cheap vices I current employ have lasted by almost two years and sustained considerable abuse. The construction of the Carbatec vice is considerably better, heavier section castings, much better tolerances, reasonable design (or copy at least).... an infinite improvement over what I have now. By this rational I should expect to get considerably more life from the Carbatec vice. Appropriate quality on a budget? Sounds good to me.

I've looked at a couple of quick release vices also, none of them turned me on at all. I have this fear of moving parts, the less there are the better.

Jeremy, the Dawn/Record style vices just don't sit well with me. There's something about the non-customisable nature and inability to repair them that bugs me. The simpler the better.

P.S. Derek, I ordered the book you suggested also. Only an extra $20... pffst! Hang the expense!

Another thought for you kman-oz:

I was rereading the blogs over at Woodworking magazine last night and I was particularly taken with an ide Bob lang had about his tool well. He uses removable boxes sitting on a shoulder on the inside surfaces of the top. The great thing about these is that they can be removed to allow clamping and inverted to provide a continuous top when you need it.

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I am definitely going to build in a tool well (I'm very good at knocking things off benches onto the floor) but I think the ones that sit along the far side of a bench just reduce the versatility and utility of a bench. I have been planning on a cnetral well as used by David Charlesworth, but now I really like Bob Lang's idea.

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I had a look at that vise yesterday in CT Bt\ris. Was fairly impressed. Much better quality than the ones referred to in my previous post. Iwould buy that one.

Great find jaspr, that's brilliant! Best of both worlds and even more versatile... that's going onto the design board too

Thanks artme, I think I'm decided on that front vice now, with a removable shoulder vice retro-fit to come later. I just learned my mothers neighbour has one of these (learned over a chat over the fence ) and I'll be going to have a closer look and feel in operation on the weekend.

I had my own good idea too: The front vice screw on the Carbatec vice is offset so that you can get away with using only one side of the vice for vertical work, of course you still get some racking. I've been using a scrap of timber to brace the other side of the vice, and I've seen people make a little collection of spacers in a feeler-gauge style array, neither of which works very well unless you have three hands or exceptional knee dexterity.... I have neither so I always find this painful.

Anyway, my idea was to build a screw thread into the left side of the vice jaw that can be used to hold the left of the vice open at the desired width while clamping the peice on the right with the vice screw. The procedure would go like this; place peice in centre of vice and tighten, extend thread, open vice and clamp peice vertically on the right, tighten. If you had any flexing in the vice jaw this method could be used to correct for this too. Exactly what screw to use I'm not sure about yet.

If anyone doesn't understand what I mean I'll make a scetchup.