Thread: Vices for work bench

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Hi, I get excited about building a new woodwork bench then, do the usual reading about the good bad and great vice options.
Rob Crosman’s vice that he uses is looks very impressive till you look at the price. Has anyone actually bit the bullet and purchased one or two of his vices.

Hey Steve,

Oh man, thats fab that you're going to build a bench

Were you settled on a shoulder vise design?

Oh it's so easy to get carried away with the "latest" and "Greatest" best ever machined vises. Heck I'm an engineer, and straight away fell for the Benchcrafted due to the tight tolerances and sheer amount of heft in the castings.
Upon retrospect, though the manufacturing is faultless....i regret buying it as it blew my budget out of the water, and doesnt function the way i wanted it to.

The Cosman vise is a hefty piece of custom machining, but that vise landed would be around $1k, and you'd want to be sure the shoulder vise is something you're really after (its one of those that people either really like, or really dislike).

If the shoulder vise is something you want, why not consider Lake Eerie toolwork's wooden vise for the ultimate mojo at half the price.

Otherwise, I know Dawn makes a screw that is $200 that you could use. Or Timbecon does a Beladonia one too.

I'd be super keen to see your workbench design though! I'm just building another at the moment and love hearing what others around are doing.

Cheers,
Siggy

PS: I noticed you're in Box Hill. Im just up the hill in Balwyn! Small world!

Hi Siggy, so far I have done squat! What does appeal is the Scandinavian style bench and so Rob’s bench looks very impressive. But you are right about cost..simply put it’s nuts! But I just love the idea of the twin start thread. Highly polished but deeply scratched maybe what a lot of it is about.
There is only one close up I can find and the machining is only so so. Anyway I’ll keep looking and find some excuse not to buy.
Steven

Your choice of vise needs to reflect what you want to hold in it, what you want to build and how you intend building it which also dictates the design of your bench.

Have a read of this E-book just released by Chris Schwartz. The narrative leads towards a specific bench design but along the way he discusses the options open to him and why he went down each path. There is a fair chunk on vise types listing all the pros and cons as he saw them.

My current bench is a bit of an experiment in that I think I know what I want in my next bench. I built it to replicate those features but it also allows me to change stuff if it isn’t doing what I thought it would.

Hey Steven,

That is all good mate! Rob's bench is very nicely done, and the fact that he cuts dovetails so fast in it make the bench look even more impressive.

I agree with Chieff Tiff, best read a few books on it to understand what each feature was designed for. There are reasons why shoulder vises are use and there are equally valid reasons why a Record or Dawn cast vise are used.
To construct, a well executed shoulder vise is perhaps one of the harder options, combined with the fact that if you aim to have similar construction details as Cosman uses (dovetails or even finger joints), there is a significant amount of time invested. You dont want to do what i did where I poured weeks into it only to find that it was sub optimal for my sort of use.

The Chris Schwartz e-book is quite good. For a free resource it is a source of some amazing information. I would still recommend over any workbench book out there Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book" because the difference is, that Scott wrote that in the 80s, and he interviewed and documented designs of various workbenches of furniture makers whom were at the bench 8 - 10 hours a day (Tage Frid, Frank Klausz, Ian Kirby, Michael Fortune etc etc). They were professional furniture makers whom had very very thorough and in depth training compared to a lot of guys now whom are moreso content makers and self taught. The point is, the information in that book opened my eyes totally to a level of detail and practicality i havnt found in other texts.

If you also get the chance, I would also suggest trying various benches in real life, be it those of fellow woodworkers or at schools like the Melbourne Guild of Fine Woodworking (whom are just in Blackburn) etc. This is really an important part with respect to how to size a bench.

You will find that most folks whom use hand held power tools (routers, sanders etc) prefer a higher bench of say 900mm-950mm, whilst other's whom utilize hand tools heavily prefer a bench at 830-850mm in height....sounds small, but it makes a world of difference in comfort and reducing fatigue. Some clever folks even have ways to chock up their bench for certain tasks and lower it for other tasks. I for example have shorter arms (as I'm 165cm tall) and a bench of 600mm width is the max that I feel comfortable with.

I am very very excited for you A workbench build is so much fun, and when it turns out as planned, nothing is as satisfying especially when you show it to your mates


Cheers,
Siggy

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Hi Siggy, so far I have done squat! What does appeal is the Scandinavian style bench and so Rob’s bench looks very impressive. But you are right about cost..simply put it’s nuts! But I just love the idea of the twin start thread. Highly polished but deeply scratched maybe what a lot of it is about.
There is only one close up I can find and the machining is only so so. Anyway I’ll keep looking and find some excuse not to buy.
Steven

Thanks for the clues Chief.

Siggy by chance have you done any of the courses at the MSWW in Blackburn?
PS:Thanks for the clues RE: Scott Landis

Hey Steve,

Unfortunately I cant quite afford to do the classes at the MGFW, but i have been there several times to visit Alastair. I cant recommend him highly enough. He is a man passionate about educating and spreading the word of fine/craft woodworking. He has many benches kitted with the trusty dawn vises as well as a Roubo, as he actually runs a Roubo making class. I would simply jump on the phone and have a chat to him about it. I am sure he would be more than willing to let you in and take a peek at the benches. It's a very good place to start.

If you want to know the ins and outs of roubo, design and construction (from my experience in building one) feel free to hit me up sir I had a build thread on this forum too for my bench.

Cheers,

Siggy


Cheers,
Siggy

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Siggy by chance have you done any of the courses at the MSWW in Blackburn?
PS:Thanks for the clues RE: Scott Landis

Have a look at Terry Gordon's vises. Modern, well engineered and no nonsense.

Not necessarily what you want if you are building a traditional bench but they are Aussie made and well thought out.

Bench Vices & Clamps – HNT Gordon & Co. Classic Planemakers Australia

Originally Posted by doug3030

Have a look at Terry Gordon's vises. Modern, well engineered and no nonsense.

Not necessarily what you want if you are building a traditional bench but they are Aussie made and well thought out.

Bench Vices & Clamps – HNT Gordon & Co. Classic Planemakers Australia

I'd take issue with the term "modern" in the context of Terry's vice hardware.
"well engineered" certainly
"no nonsense" without a doubt
"well thought out" also very true,
but not "modern".
From what I can tell, Terry's vice hardware is an update on the piano vices fitted to Studley's workbench and similar benches common among piano makers a century or so more ago. Studley's two bench vises are different sizes -- have different depth of opening and width of jaws. But both represent superb pieces of engineering.

Terry's vises are very much precision devices and I want two -- 1 x face vise and 1 x tail vise.

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Hi, I get excited about building a new woodwork bench then, do the usual reading about the good bad and great vice options.
Rob Crosman’s vice that he uses is looks very impressive till you look at the price. Has anyone actually bit the bullet and purchased one or two of his vices.

Steven, my advice would be to build a basic bench and add a Record-copy vise from Carbatec, and then use this for at least 5 years before making any decisions. I went 20 years this way, and then built my current bench.

Everyone is entitled to have a different view of what they want, but it still takes time to know what works and why. Personally, I would not be happy with Cosman's bench because I dislike the face vise. Leaning across it to dovetail is for masochists. When he built it, it was fashionable. Today there are a couple of other designs which are fashionable, so there are more choices. But do not build a bench because it seems popular - you need to understand your work methods, and these need to be mature enough to last the life of your bench, or you will be building several.

Reading Chris Schwarz' book on benches is a good start. There are a few others around.

Regards from Perth

Derek

i would suggest just grabbing something mid-priced and readily available from like carbatec or timbecon (with a quick release if that floats your boat), and not thinking too hard about it just yet

my thinking is that a) you want something reasonably good, so you can learn the tool rather than fighting sloppy manufacturing, but b) anything you buy now you'll probably wanna swap out later, once you get a better feel for your specific needs, so no point spending heirloom money yet

(also, keep in mind that with covid keeping flights grounded, anything you order from overseas is gonna take aaaages to arrive, whereas stock that's already in vic will ship normally, or you might be able to pick up yourself same day. how's your patience?)

Hi, thank you everyone for all the input. Lots more reading to do I think.
Steven
PS thanks for the imput about the MSWW Siggy.

No worries Steve,

I think you may be getting a couple mixed up, in regards to the schools for woodworking local to you, I and all other Melbournians.

Melbourne School for Fine Woodworking (MSFW) is in Box Hill on Rowern Court (just off Lexton Rd/Middleborough Rd)
I havnt had any experience with these good folks.


Melbourne Guild for Fine Woodworking (MGFW) is in Blackburn on Cottage Street. This is Al, his group of folks and very chilled out pooch who patrols the machine room in search of a good pat.
The first time I went there, they had their wood fire roaring and I sat on a windsor chair patting the dog in front of the fire with a huge Oliver jointer proudly sitting beside me as I waited for Al. This place has a good feel to it!


Derek is right, cutting dovetails or anything fine over a shouldervise is masochistic! Because of the extra reach it dictates you would perhaps need to lower the benchtop thus perhaps affecting other operations that you would use the workbench for.
If i were a betting man, I'd say there are more Record style vises in service, than perhaps any other vise design in the world. I believe even Geoff Hannah uses them too. My old man's 40 year old workbench at the NGV uses one (although it's the locally made DAWN variety).


Have a good one mate

Originally Posted by stevenjd

Hi, thank you everyone for all the input. Lots more reading to do I think.
Steven
PS thanks for the imput about the MSWW Siggy.

Originally Posted by Siggykc

Hey Steve,

Oh man, thats fab that you're going to build a bench

Were you settled on a shoulder vise design?

Oh it's so easy to get carried away with the "latest" and "Greatest" best ever machined vises. Heck I'm an engineer, and straight away fell for the Benchcrafted due to the tight tolerances and sheer amount of heft in the castings.
Upon retrospect, though the manufacturing is faultless....i regret buying it as it blew my budget out of the water, and doesnt function the way i wanted it to.

The Cosman vise is a hefty piece of custom machining, but that vise landed would be around $1k, and you'd want to be sure the shoulder vise is something you're really after (its one of those that people either really like, or really dislike).

If the shoulder vise is something you want, why not consider Lake Eerie toolwork's wooden vise for the ultimate mojo at half the price.

Otherwise, I know Dawn makes a screw that is $200 that you could use. Or Timbecon does a Beladonia one too.

I'd be super keen to see your workbench design though! I'm just building another at the moment and love hearing what others around are doing.

Cheers,
Siggy

PS: I noticed you're in Box Hill. Im just up the hill in Balwyn! Small world!

What was the issue that failed to satisfy you with regard to the Benchcrafted vise? I'm weighing up vise choices for a bench I'll likely make in a couple of years and that one is on the list atm. All I've seen on youtube is glowing reviews but if you're not entirely happy with yours I'd be silly not to ask given the steep entry price.