Thread: WIP - John's Workbench Mk2!!

Thank you for the valuable advice guys. I think I got the idea of the through wedged draw bored tenons from what I was interpreting from Groggy's manuscript. But if you both think that another idea is better then I'm happy with that - after all you both have a workbench!

Moving to an earthquake zone? Well I'm in Adelaide, we had a small earthquake a month or do ago...something actually fell off the shelf...but then the shelf was ricketty to start with!

Back to the bench...here are 2 ideas, I personally like the 1 big wedge, that way I can mallet it tight when the weather changes...but then again I also liked draw bored & wedged...so I'm going to 'borrow' ur experience again if I can.

I agree with fixing the side stretchers permanently, that makes sense. With the top would a dry mortis & tenon be sufficient, or would a removable wedge be better?

Hopefully I'll get back to actually making wood chips...that's far more fun. Although I've been sharpening my cheap chisels...goodness there's not a straight edge on them (there is now after about 2 hrs on each ) - what r they teaching those Chinese people?!!

Oops...here r the pics!

John - the through-tenon with two wedges in your pic would almost certainly be a fixed joint. You could certainly assemble it as a 'dry' joint, and it would be solid enough, but it wouldn't be the most convenient one to knock down. The other joint, which I have seen referred to as a 'tusked tenon' is much more appropriate for a knock-down joint.

When used in a joint like stretcher to leg, it makes sense to have the wedge inserted vertically, rather than on the side. The idea is that it is then 'self-tightening' if wedge and/or leg shrink & the joint rocks a little. To use a vertical wedge, you will need sufficient thickness in your stretcher to accomodate the wedge. A wedge around 15mm thick should be adequate, so you should have plenty of room in the pieces you've assigned to the job. I've used these joints a few times, & they make a very sound & solid fixture. But do be mindful that they stick out a ways, so you need to ensure the legs are tucked under the bench far enough or they could become nasty shin-barkers.

I guess you are keen to make your leg joints interesting, which is fair enough - a bench can be a showpiece as well as a tool. I considered doing something similar on my last bench, too, but in the end went for the boringly simple expedient of bolted joints for the long stretchers. They have stub tenons about 15-20mm deep, just to allow positioning when assembling. The joints were very easy to make & they have given me no trouble whatsoever in 25 years. I've ended up dismantling & moving the darn thing several more times than I ever expected I would, & have been thankful that the process is uncomplicated!


Cheers,

Originally Posted by johnredl

Just thinking about wooden threads & twin screw vices (or leg vices for that matter). I know that you can buy ready made 2" monsters that are purpose made for vices, but the 1 1/2" tapping & threading kit sold by LV, will this do the job? Is 1 1/2" thick enough for a vice? Or does anyone know of someone who has a big tap and die that if I send them some turned wood and some bribery, they might be able to tap and die a thread and nut for me?

Beall's Wood Tapping & Threading Kits - Lee Valley Tools

I've got a router and a wood lathe, but no experience on the lathe since high school.

Hi John

I'm a bit late to this thread - my apologies if I confuse matters with comments.

Firstly, I would not recommend a 1 1/2" diameter screw for a face vise. The issue is not the diameter but the tpi. These smaller screws tend to be around 6 tpi. What you are looking for is around 2 tpi. The higher thread-per-inch count will open-and-close toooooooo s-l-o-w-l-y. You will hate it after a while. These screws are fine on a Moxon, where the board thickness does not have a wide range.

Here is a link if you want to build your own: BigWoodVise.com - Wooden Vise Components for Your Workbench

Second. The reason why some benches are now a common 4" thick is not just for absorbing vibration and stability, but so that they (a) better suit holdfasts, and (b) avoid using an apron (skirt) around the perimeter, as these make it difficult to clamp.

What you can do is build up the thickness of the top in the areas where you would clamp and use holdfasts.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I am pretty sure that I'm going for a Lake Erie Wooden Thread leg vice, but I'm not sure if I need a sliding deadman tho...

Also, has anyone ever used/heard of the Atlas Tail Vice? Here is a link:
http://www.atlas-machinery.com/produ...ichael-Fortune

I know that the benchcrafted wagon vice is gold standard, but not sure if the budget will stretch this far, so I'm after thoughts again. I'm fairly sure that a tail vice will do the job nicely, but I'm stuck between the LV and the atlas.

John, have a think about what happens to the vises when you plane the bench flat a few times. It looks like that vise may expose metal or need re-seating after a few maintenance runs over the bench with a plane.

I know that the benchcrafted wagon vice is gold standard, but not sure if the budget will stretch this far, so I'm after thoughts again. I'm fairly sure that a tail vice will do the job nicely, but I'm stuck between the LV and the atlas.

Hi John

The reason I am springing for the BC wagon vise rather than building one myself (which I was looking forward to doing) was for two reasons:

Firstly, I had Chris Vesper staying over and he said he had also purchased the BC. Chris is a fantastic toolmaker and has all the equipment to build one himself, so I asked him why he did not do so. He said that he could not match the construction, and that this type of vise really needed to be very beefy. The screw is offset from the dog carrier, which places a lot of stress on the construction in that area. The traditional end vise (as per the Michael Fortune et al) has a different construction internally, and is in line).

The importance of not having the screw in line with the dog is so that you can use the slot/mortice as a work area.

Secondly, the BC screw works differently to all the others. As you wind it the external handle/wheel remains in the same spot. That is, it neither moves forward nor back. This is important for my bench since I have little enough space behind the bench in this area. Opening the screw would block a doorway. With this not being an issue, I should be able to add an extra 6" to the length of my bench (to a total of 6'6").

You need to look into the pros and cons of the available tail vises. For example, while I cannot recall the details, the new LV tail vises requires a specific length/thickness in which to work. The LV wagon vise has had some good reviews, appears cheap enough, but the screw extends out and I am not convinced that it would be beefy enough for the long term.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thank you for your reply Derek & Groggy. I've taken ur advice & have decided on the BC wagon. It's heaps more than I planned on spending tho, so it might have to wait for a while.

Sooo....Is there a reason why I can't finish the bench (frame, top & put together) then after saving up, router a slot in the top to 'retro-fit' the BC wagon? (Obviously I would have to ensure the legs weren't put in the way when I build the thing!). From what I can see in pics you screw it to the bottom of the bench top?

Sound like a plan? I am going to stick with the Lake Erie wooden screw for the leg vice tho. I like the traditional look of the chunky wood.

John, start to put the pennies away now so the pain is reduced later. It is not just the cost of the vise but the shipping too. I saved up for my vises whilst buiding the bench; that gave me plenty of time to get the amount I needed. But I would say get the vise you want, as afterwards you will just ask yourself "why didn't I wait till I had the money". I think we have all said this.

Originally Posted by johnredl

Sooo....Is there a reason why I can't finish the bench (frame, top & put together) then after saving up, router a slot in the top to 'retro-fit' the BC wagon? (Obviously I would have to ensure the legs weren't put in the way when I build the thing!). From what I can see in pics you screw it to the bottom of the bench top?

No.

Download the plans off the BC website and have a good read. I read those instructions dozens of times as I changed their plans a bit, but you should read them carefully before you buy the vise, when you get the vise, then a few times more as you build the bench. Pay particular attention to where the vise is in relation to the leg.

Originally Posted by Groggy

John, start to put the pennies away now so the pain is reduced later. It is not just the cost of the vise but the shipping too. I saved up for my vises whilst buiding the bench; that gave me plenty of time to get the amount I needed. But I would say get the vise you want, as afterwards you will just ask yourself "why didn't I wait till I had the money". I think we have all said this.

I managed to even convince the spouse that the BC is a good idea...that's how definite I am! (insert fist pump here)

I think I worded that badly, what I was wondering is, can I build it with the leg vice only, then fit the wagon after? I was hoping to get this thing together before Xmas, whereas the BC will be next year.

Originally Posted by Groggy

No.

Download the plans off the BC website and have a good read. I read those instructions dozens of times as I changed their plans a bit, but you should read them carefully before you buy the vise, when you get the vise, then a few times more as you build the bench. Pay particular attention to where the vise is in relation to the leg.

Sorry...didn't c this reply

Originally Posted by Groggy

... But I would say get the vise you want, as afterwards you will just ask yourself "why didn't I wait till I had the money". I think we have all said this.

I couldn't agree more, and isn't limited to the purchase of vises

Guys...what do you think of a split benchtop? I got the idea while looking at some pics on the Lake Erie Screw site. Here's one:

Attachment 187301

Except I'm using different vices. Most of the bench tops that I am seeing on this forum are standard ones, not splits...is there a good reason for this?

(I promise to start posting pics of my actual bench instead of continually asking questions soon )

I have completed the mortises for the 2 short stretchers (sides will be permanent, and the long stretchers will be wedged, knock-downs), but I thought that if I am going to do a split bench, I will need to add a board to the top of the legs to hold the 2 sides of the splits in place.

Thanks again for your valuable advice, it is definately making my bench build easier