Thread: WIP - John's Workbench Mk2!!

How far down from the top of the bench should I put the hole for the wood screw? The side stretchers are between 20-25" (ish) down from the top, so obviously somewhere between 6-20".

12" from the top of the bench.

Also re mounting the wooden threaded block - would I need to countersink it 1/2" or so, or would gluing it to the inside of the leg be sufficient. All the stress should be towards the leg, not in a twisting motion, so titebond2 alone should be ok?

I plan to countersink mine. Not only is it neater, but it will reduce the possibility of the block twisting loose (if the thread sticks).

Regards from Perth

Derek

John, mine is set at the Benchcrafted recommended 9", which has proven ideal for me. Suggest that you cut the chop over-long and trim it to length after all other tasks are complete. That way you can get it perfectly level with the bench top.

You bench is shaping up well and looks very strong!

Mmm .. I should add that the 12" distance was recommended by Chris Schwarz for wooden screws. I wonder if there is a reason the BC metal screws are different? Bench height 34".

Regards from Perth

Derek

How thick are the wooden screws? The BC are about 1-1/4" IIRC.

The (USA-made) wooden screw I have is 2 1/2" in diameter. This is the same as the one used by both Chris Schwarz and Jameel Abraham (who used wooden screws before he developed the BC version in steel).

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have to say up front that though I'm a long-time user & advocate of wooden screws, I fail to grasp why these leg vises have suddenly become the flavour of the month, & strongly suspect they are simply a fashion statement. (That ought to draw some incoming fire... ). But honestly, what real advantages do they offer other than relatively simple construction? Yet there are some disadvantages that I see, like the screw being totally unprotected from the slings & arrows of daily use. Keeping the screw low keeps it out of the way, but further from the top means less mechanical advantage when tightening on the workpiece, so you will need to lean on the screw harder to get a good grip, which is going to put more strain on those expensive threads. (Having said that, I will admit I've quite often leaned pretty heavily on the the wooden screw on my tail vise, and it hasn't shown any sign of stress after 25 years of solid use, so they are pretty tough). A heavy baulk of wood dropped on the screw (which is going to happen sooner or later) could bruise the threads, or worse.

Having to deal with a separate nut is a bit of a nuisance - back when Mr. Roubo et al were making these things, surely the nut would have been tapped into the leg itself? I think I would be letting the nut into the leg, and using a comfortably over-size hole in the leg leading to the nut. The reason for this is to minimise the chances of the threads catching & binding in the leg hole. If you were really enthusiastic about 18C technology, you could make your own tap & put the nut in the leg. The method reputedly used at the time was illustrated in a FWW about 30 something years back. It's not high-tech, & would take a bit of patience & fiddling to set up, but a much neater & perhaps more 'authentic' solution?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I have to say up front that though I'm a long-time user & advocate of wooden screws, I fail to grasp why these leg vises have suddenly become the flavour of the month, & strongly suspect they are simply a fashion statement. (That ought to draw some incoming fire... ). But honestly, what real advantages do they offer other than relatively simple construction? Yet there are some disadvantages that I see, like the screw being totally unprotected from the slings & arrows of daily use. Keeping the screw low keeps it out of the way, but further from the top means less mechanical advantage when tightening on the workpiece, so you will need to lean on the screw harder to get a good grip, which is going to put more strain on those expensive threads. (Having said that, I will admit I've quite often leaned pretty heavily on the the wooden screw on my tail vise, and it hasn't shown any sign of stress after 25 years of solid use, so they are pretty tough). A heavy baulk of wood dropped on the screw (which is going to happen sooner or later) could bruise the threads, or worse.

Having to deal with a separate nut is a bit of a nuisance - back when Mr. Roubo et al were making these things, surely the nut would have been tapped into the leg itself? I think I would be letting the nut into the leg, and using a comfortably over-size hole in the leg leading to the nut. The reason for this is to minimise the chances of the threads catching & binding in the leg hole. If you were really enthusiastic about 18C technology, you could make your own tap & put the nut in the leg. The method reputedly used at the time was illustrated in a FWW about 30 something years back. It's not high-tech, & would take a bit of patience & fiddling to set up, but a much neater & perhaps more 'authentic' solution?

Cheers,

I have to agree. I think leg vices, like grossly oversized Roubo benches, are fashion-ware which amateur woodworkers (seemingly more so than professionals) adopt in pretence/hope of being elevated to the accomplishments of 'Olde Worlde' cabinetmakers.

There's nothing wrong with being a victim of fashion, but why spend a small fortune on an imported wooden screw when a cheap Taiwanese iron vice is infinitely more practical and hardwearing?

If you're concerned about the iron vice racking, then you could cut a slot in the left end of the outer vice chop (assuming right-handedness) and slide in a wooden threaded adjuster and nut to counter any racking. Or simply drop a stack of MDF 'leaves' or a piece of scrap of the necessary width into the vice before tightening it.

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

John

Can't help from experience
but you mght want to look at the BozInOz bench build here
He starts playing with his leg vise design at about post 74 which might give you some assistance
good luck - I'm watching with interest as I will have a similar design process to go through if I ever get time to get back to it

OK, thanks for the link

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I plan to countersink mine. Not only is it neater, but it will reduce the possibility of the block twisting loose (if the thread sticks).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Fair point Derek, a little work now may save a possible repair down the track. 1/2 - 3/4" should be plenty deep enough?

Originally Posted by Groggy

John, mine is set at the Benchcrafted recommended 9", which has proven ideal for me. Suggest that you cut the chop over-long and trim it to length after all other tasks are complete. That way you can get it perfectly level with the bench top.

You bench is shaping up well and looks very strong!

Thanks Groggy

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I have to agree. I think leg vices, like grossly oversized Roubo benches, are fashion-ware which amateur woodworkers (seemingly more so than professionals) adopt in pretence/hope of being elevated to the accomplishments of 'Olde Worlde' cabinetmakers.

There's nothing wrong with being a victim of fashion, but why spend a small fortune on an imported wooden screw when a cheap Taiwanese iron vice is infinitely more practical and hardwearing?

If you're concerned about the iron vice racking, then you could cut a slot in the left end of the outer vice chop (assuming right-handedness) and slide in a wooden threaded adjuster and nut to counter any racking. Or simply drop a stack of MDF 'leaves' or a piece of scrap of the necessary width into the vice before tightening it.

Someone previously (not sure which post/link) said that the strength between the 2 1/2"wooden screw and a metal thread are fairly equivilant. Obviously impact damage is a factor. I'm sure that I have OCD, so I intend to be as carefull as possible with the wood screw. (check back in a year or so to see if this is still the case!!)

But seriously, if I have gone to the effort of handplaning 80+year old jarrah to make this thing, why wouldn't you want a huge traditional lump of wood on your vice to make it look authentic? I'm a traditionalist (well a hybrid, but mainly a traditionalist)...plus I like the look of the huge wood screw.

I think leg vices, like grossly oversized Roubo benches, are fashion-ware which amateur woodworkers (seemingly more so than professionals) adopt in pretence/hope of being elevated to the accomplishments of 'Olde Worlde' cabinetmakers.

There's nothing wrong with being a victim of fashion, but why spend a small fortune on an imported wooden screw when a cheap Taiwanese iron vice is infinitely more practical and hardwearing?

Buying anything these days could make one a victim of fashion, it seems. Buyers Beware! There are electronic signals emitted from your computer and TV and the World Wide Web targeting the weak of mind ...

One could end up believing that the only way to drive is as they do on Top Gear and desire to purchase a sportscar, or be enticed into a BMW without the awareness that they are only for the Yuppie. You could, instead, be like my wife, who insists on a Toyota for herself as they are So Reliable (I don't mind - I get to haul timber in her Tarago ... ).

There will always be those that purchase tools, or desire workbenches because someone else more experienced .. or who appears experienced ... considers it better or the best. But there are also some who put a lot of thought into what they are doing, and derive a great deal of satisfaction from there choices and endeavors. Where did I hear the phrase, "Let's not re-invent the wheel"? It seems to me that wooden vises and Roubo came along before the Taiwanese invented the metal screw. Or did they?

I agree that a steel screw will endure rough treatment better than a wooden screw. There are pros and cons either way. The purpose made 2 1/2" wooden screw, for example, is generally 2-3 tpi, which offers really fast operating speed.

As for leg vices being the domain of "pretend cabinetmakers"? Hey, that's me!

a little work now (countersinking) may save a possible repair down the track. 1/2 - 3/4" should be plenty deep enough?

Hi John

How thick/wide is the leg? It will end up being a balance between retaining structural strength and aesthetics.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I have to agree. I think leg vices, like grossly oversized Roubo benches, are fashion-ware which amateur woodworkers (seemingly more so than professionals) adopt in pretence/hope of being elevated to the accomplishments of 'Olde Worlde' cabinetmakers.

There's nothing wrong with being a victim of fashion, but why spend a small fortune on an imported wooden screw when a cheap Taiwanese iron vice is infinitely more practical and hardwearing?

Woodwould.

Not only are you by far the best craftsman on this site you are a man of wisdom too.

Col.
Hoppers Crossing Vic.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi John

How thick/wide is the leg? It will end up being a balance between retaining structural strength and aesthetics.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek

The leg is 130 x 90 (w x d)

Ta

Hi John

That has substantial width. My thought is that you could treat use the 1/3 Rule and mortice 30mm deep if you wish.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi John

That has substantial width. My thought is that you could treat use the 1/3 Rule and mortice 30mm deep if you wish.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ok. Thanks Derek...more morticing . I was always planning a wooden screw, so I made it a bit wider.

Is tassie oak suitable for the leg vice? I have a piece 6" x 1 1/2". I thought that tassie oak, with the wooden screw against the jarrah frame would look nice.