Thread: WIP - Kman's Traditional Work Bench

Nice work Dave. What wood did you use for the dowel when draw boring. I'm about to do the same for my bench but I'm unsure about what to use for the dowel. Did you use draw bore pins to test the joint first?

Regards,

Denim.

It's looking really well.

Nothing special at all, just Tas. Oak dowel from Bunnies.

Once I had the holes sorted out, which was the actually the hardest part of the whole process, I simply measured the depth of the holes and marked a line on the dowel at the same depth. I then shaved one side of the dowel with a spokeshave until I was able to insert it (with the shaved side tight against the hole in the tenon) about 3-5mm into the tenon hole by hand. I was confident that the holes were straight so this was enough engagement to be sure that they would fit firmly when the glue was added as lubricant. After that I shaved a large shallow chamfer on to the pin on the opposide side. This will allow the pin to wedge into the other side of the mortice smoothly. So you have an idea, the draw pin looked more like a ladies finger than a dowel by the time it was ready.

The first joint I did this way I actually tested the draw pin to full depth before cutting it from the full length of dowel. I realised after assebling this joint that this was quite a bit too easy to insert with glue. The second joint I made firmer and tested to full depth again, but still too easy with glue. By the time I got to the last two I didn't both to test to full depth, just a few millimetres as this was all I could manage by hand. This time they were a nice mallet fit with glue which I suspect is how a joint of this size should be.

Thanks WW. I must make an apology to you regarding the dimensions of the draw boring, I deviated quite a bit from your recommendations as you can see. Do understand that I'm not disregarding them, I simply didn't have the confidence to do them right. With the correct size materials I would have been far more confident bringing the hole closer to the shoulders. Having done it once and better understand the joint I'm supremely confident that I should have just got the right gear and done it exactly as you suggested.

I keep saying it; its all about the experience!

Originally Posted by kman-oz

Thanks WW. I must make an apology to you regarding the dimensions of the draw boring, I deviated quite a bit from your recommendations as you can see. Do understand that I'm not disregarding them, I simply didn't have the confidence to do them right. With the correct size materials I would have been far more confident bringing the hole closer to the shoulders. Having done it once and better understand the joint I'm supremely confident that I should have just got the right gear and done it exactly as you suggested.

I keep saying it; its all about the experience!

Not a problem! It's all for the good.

How close should this have been?

WW suggested 10mm dowel with the centre placed no more than 15mm from the shoulder. For a joint of this size, intuitively I thought larger would be better, but having done it I'm sure the smaller pegs would have been equaly effetcive. Having said that the rear stretcher joints looks like a good proportion to me.

After checking out Groggy's progress over the weekend and bouncing quite a few ideas and concepts off him, I spent a bit of time re-designing the bench according to the image I had in my minds eye. Of course, this is what I've been building, but I hadn't actually sketched out all the details until now.

This one is V2 which differs considerably from V1. Version one had a double row of dog holes on the front of the bench operated by a combination wagon vice and tail vice. Too damn complicated; trashed. Instead I'll be building one large wagon vice which is far simpler and more robust. Version one also had a continuous top, but having seen how a split top bench works in conjunction with holdfasts, planing stops and other simple jigs/fixtures, I've seen the light. The major frame dimensions, top dimensions, front vice and deadman have suffered only minor adjustments.

Features
- 2500mm x 700mm top 100mm thick (8'2" x 2'3", 4" thick)
- Split top with end caps and 50mm centre gap
- Large face vice (600mm wide, 200mm travel)
- Large wagon vice (50mm wide, 250mm travel)
- Planing stops (not pictures)
- Large leg-through-top tenons for maximum rigidity
- Sliding deadman large enough to be clamped to or to accept holdfasts
- Of course, the front skirt, legs, stretchers etc are all in the same plane and square to the top.

I read a lot of people complaining about the fact that they have to wind the wagon vice constantly because it's always in exactly the wrong position for the job at hand... you can probably thank Murphy for that, but I wondered why nobody bothered to put two closely spaced dogs in the wagon vice? I can't think of one good reason, and so it is done. If you need to hold very small stock in the wagon vice you also want the vice in as closed a position as possible to maximise support under the piece, so a couple of closely spaced dogs in the start of the dog row are also in order.

You may note that the dog hole row is quite a ways back from the front edge, there are three reasons for this. Firstly, while a planing stop will stop a board traveling down the bench while planing, there is ofter occasion to stop a board traveling across the bench too. A couple of dogs poking out of the top will be very helpful here as long as there is sufficient space between the edge of the bench and the dogs. Secondly, I could see no good reason to have them so close to the front edge, while having them set back a little will be advantageous for holding wide boards. Third, I didn't want to compromise the strength of the front edge of the bench if at all possible, nor did I want to interfere with the leg tenons.

I've also noted that some people complain about a front vice wracking to much to be useful for clamping wide boards vertically. If I'm going to be working the edge of a board larger than the wagon vice opening I have two legs a stretcher and a deadman to help, each of which will be more that up to the task of holding a board rigid for end grain work. Though with a little thought the front vice can still be a powerful aid in this endeavor, but more on that another time.

I glued two lengths of flooring together this afternoon and I'm not at all happy with the way it went, so I'm still open to suggestions for laminating the boards together.

Dave.

Interesting read. Can not offer advise so I have to wait for others to post. What went wrong with the flooring glue up?

Lots of thinking going on here Dave, I remember going through that stage. Regarding the flooring glue-up, do you have a solid beam you can use to commence the glue up with by clamping the flooring to it? That will help you to get off to a start that is reasonably straight. Also, you will need some cauls to make sure the top and bottom develop flat. Lots of speed required so getting a lot of glue on fast is essential - I used a small pouring pot and a credit card to spread it.

The dovetail design on my bench bothers me and I like yours better. I'm concerned mine may be affected by expansion and contraction pulling at the joint, yours looks like it will weather movement better. Hopefully I can mitigate movement in mine by rubbing in lots of oil.

couple of questions

1 why the 50mm gap?
2 is the dovetail the wrong way around? should the tail be on the side rail(?) and not the end.

Now, if Groggy would be so kind as to let me borrow his incomplete bench top as a clamping aid...

This is in fact the main problem, I don't have anything long and rigid enough to make a proper start. Once I have three or four boards together I can manage the rest, but how to start when the longest length I have is the front stretcher on the bench, which is a full metre too short. Looking around, the only thing I can see that might help is the posts on the pergola. I'm still thinking this one through.

Regarding the dovetails, I was initially considering making doubles instead of just the one. But after seeing just how much effort must be going into yours Groggy, I decided to stick with a single. It seems to me that the front facing double dovetail is pretty much the default for benches with a wagon vice. Though I believe most of them are using materials considerably thinner such that movement will be a smaller issue. Mine will have the rely on the bolts for vice tension, but that didn't concern me at all, and it also means I don't have to worry about movement at all. I need only make the dovetails rigid and let the top expand and contract to/from the centre. If the endcaps move a little this doesn't effect the front edge of the bench either.

Do you remember me asking whether you had considered drawboring the dovetails together? My thinking was to maximise rigidity at the front edge so that expansion would be focused towards the back. This would mean making sure there is room for the tails to grow inside the blind pins.

I remember making small peices and wondering how they would stand up to movement. With materials this size there is considerably more thought going into this one problem than any other. I can appreciate why apprentice joiners in centuries past were required to make their own bench as a first project.

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

couple of questions

1 why the 50mm gap?
2 is the dovetail the wrong way around? should the tail be on the side rail(?) and not the end.

There are numerous reasons to use a split top, but my favourites are:
- the ability to clamp narrower pieces to the bench,
- the ability to simply place a jig on the bench top that fits into the gap without needing to clamp it and
- to use a board placed into the gap proud of the top as a planing stop

Some people make little tool holders and such that fir into the gap also. I think I've answered Q2 in the previous post.

You can see that parts of the lamination went well, but pic two shows a part that did not go well at all. I used four boards either side of the two being clamped to help spread the pressure, but it didn't work very well as you can see. I think the issue is that the pipe and sash clamps only put pressure on one edge of the boards, not spread across the whole width. Twice as many clamps would probably fix that. Ignore the discolouration in pic two, this was a board that had been water damaged in the recent rain (was sitting directly on the floor) making it a good choice for the experiment.

Regarding glue spreading, I tried the roller yesterday which doesn't spread nearly enough glue on the surface. So I've made a glue spreader from a tile adhesive spreader. This one was a 4mm square toothed unit which I've reshaped with 1mm high teeth, we'll see how this one goes the next time I try to laminate some boards together.