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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    Default Wood for workbench

    Hey guys,

    As many of you, I always wanted to have a good workbench. I've been looking at some alternatives and I would like something like the following:
    * Laminated Pine Workbench From 2x4's - Woodworking - YouTube

    I know, I will most likely over-engineering it but for some reason I don't think the MDF will last long.

    1) Which kind of wood do you recommend for a workbench? Should DAR Pine be enough?
    2) Treated or untreated? I was about to buy DAR pine but then I learned that treated wood could be dangerous and now I'm scared, thoughts? Also, the untreated strips I found (in Bunnings ) were in really bad condition and i think it will be needed to waste a lot of material to make them straight.

    Last but not least, any recommendation where to buy good wood and not that expensive around Sydney south (S.Shire)? I guess Bunnings is not the best option.

    Thanks

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
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    Default

    Hi Tavo, and welcome to the forum!

    Before we can start talking timber we really need to know what tooling you have access to. If you have a table saw and a chop saw you can use construction timber which is very cheap. If you also have a jointer and a thicknesser that makes the work even easier. Wood that is mildly bowed isn’t an issue; wood that is twisted is what you need to avoid.

    Regarding treated pine; for an indoor workbench the green treated stuff is unnecessary. As to it’s toxicity; this only becomes an issue if you are breathing in dust from cutting/sanding it. Or licking it. Work upwind, wear a mask and try to capture as much dust as possible using a extractor.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    27,757

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    The amount of stuff added to treated pine is a lot less than it looks - most of the coloured material used on the outside of these timbers is just that - ie coloured dye to make it distinguishable from non treated timber. You can in even take a few good licks of the timber and nothing will happen. You have to eat a few handfuls of sawdust for it to affect you. I would recommend avoiding breathing any wood dust whether it's treated or not.

    My current (15 years old) WW bench is bolted/screwed together from odds and sods mainly scavenged from skips, undressed 90x90 treated pine legs, cross pieces are mainly 100x100 bits of construction jarrah and 90x45 DAR untreated pine. I cut and drilled the treated pine outside - I suppose I should have worn a mask too do this but there were only a few holes and cuts needed.

    Frame.jpg
    This bench only has a 7ply top but this is heavily braced by a massive front crossbar and from underneath the top using up to 200 x 50 heavy Jarrah pieces I scavenged from an old pergola.
    Even after 15 years it has zero movement but it's looking decidedly tatty after also being used extensively as a chainsaw motor service bench for a few years - it's just about time for a new one.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    749

    Default

    Any wood at all will be OK.

    The choice of species will be determined by your budget and desire for aesthetics.

    As Chief Tiff says, pay attention to selecting boards that are as straight grained and clear of defects as possible.

    BTW, the term DAR stands for dressed all round, and does not mean the timber is treated. However a lot of treated construction pine is sold DAR. You will pay a premium for DAR and for treated vs non treated timber. Much cheaper to buy rough sawn and mill it yourself.

    I STRONGLY urge you to read the following free book by Chris Schwarz BEFORE you decide on the bench design. His writing style is quirky, but easy to read and the book distillation a lot of fantastic advice on workbench design and construction.

    https://blog.lostartpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/AWB_Consumer_June-2020_v5.pdf


    The key takeaways include the following points. Your bench should:
    • Be of rigid construction
    • Be heavy
    • Have a to at least 75mm thick
    • Have the front edge in the same plane (flush) with the front surface of the front legs


    The bonus of the book is that it contains full plans, cutting list and extraordinarily detailed construction notes for a fantastic workbench, and it uses very simple construction techniques. You don't need a workbench to build this workbench, nor do you need highly developed joinery skills.

    If you don't want to read the book start to finish, go to pages 191 and read the build details. (I do urge you, or anyone else with an interest in workbenches, to read the entire book)

    The only thing you might want to change is reducing the top thickness from Chris's 125mm to 90mm or so. Doing this will let you use 100x50 nominal timber floor the top, and save some money. Any top over 75mm finished thickness will be fine.

    You will end up with a bench far better than the one in that YouTube video, and cost about the same. (The YouTube bench suffers from spindly trestle style legs, an overhanging benchtop and lack of mass)

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    South Australia
    Age
    54
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    271

    Default

    Regards treated pine, I used to manage a CCA treatment plant many years ago. As a rule the timber is more toxic to humans than the chemicals used to treat them. The only realistic way the treatment can be more harmful than the wood is if you burn it and inhale large amounts of the smoke. If you could eat an entire 6m length of 4x2 treated pine in a single day that would contain about the amount of arsenic needed to kill an adult, but the timber would have killed you long before you finished your meal

    As for timber for your bench, others could give better advise. I am however trying to accumulate every piece of reclaimed hardwood I can get my hands on cheaply to build my bench.

    Cheers Andrew

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    I agree about using as thick a top as you can manage but it also depends on what timbers are being used.
    For example, given the higher densities and all round strengths of many Aussie hardwoods I'm not really convinced that wood work bench bench tops made from these timbers need to be 75 mm thick.

    I'm currently helping friend making a smallish workbench from spotted gum - we're only using a 40 mm (single slab) top but it's as heavy as a 80 mm thick pine top.
    Compared to pine, SG has almost twice the crush and rupture strengths, 2.3x the Modulus of elasticity, and is ~3 times harder.
    SG is a right bugger to work but we're not targeting fine wood working as an end product and said friend is going to use it mainly for small carving work.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I agree about using as thick a top as you can manage but it also depends on what timbers are being used.
    For example, given the higher densities and all round strengths of many Aussie hardwoods I'm not really convinced that wood work bench bench tops made from these timbers need to be 75 mm thick.

    I'm currently helping friend making a smallish workbench from spotted gum - we're only using a 40 mm (single slab) top but it's as heavy as a 80 mm thick pine top.
    Compared to pine, SG has almost twice the crush and rupture strengths, 2.3x the Modulus of elasticity, and is ~3 times harder.
    SG is a right bugger to work but we're not targeting fine wood working as an end product and said friend is going to use it mainly for small carving work.
    Hi BobL,
    I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that a top thicker than about 70 mm is more about the top having enough thickness to adequately wedge a holdfast for work holding. Additional mass (i.e. tops 120 mm thick) is required when using Southern Yellow Pine
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    423

    Default

    (Quote) I strongly urge you to read this book.

    ok did that, whoops there goes Sunday just as well the weather is not the best outside otherwise SWMBO would be asking why I have not moved off the couch.

    My first bench (10 yr old) which is 2 x 18mm MDF laminated pretty roughly on top of a basic box frame. Guess it has served me well over time and after a little reading now my mind is doing the math on how I can make a new and better bench. French cleats on the walls or bench first, decisions decisions,

    cheers
    and thanks

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Hi Chief, thanks for taking the time to reply.

    Oh your question leads to my other doubts . I've just started building my workshop. At the moment, the only power tools I have are a table saw and a router. Trying to figure out which other tools I would need for this and other projects and their priorities such as a planner thicknesser, a jointer, a hand planer, etc. Also trying to keep it under budget, with infinite $ it would be another story .
    For instance, I noticed that in that video above, they guy only used a table saw. So, I understand that somehow the finish of the cut was straight and plane enough to glue the woods to each other. I wonder if, for instance, using a fine saw blade of let's say 80 tooth could avoid me buy a thicknesser or jointer.

    About my other projects, my plan is to build a console table and other furniture for home.

    Thanks

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3

    Default

    First of all, thanks everyone for your comments. I really appreciate your help .

    Another option I came across in my research about workbenches is a T track table like the following:
    ULTIMATE T-Track Assembly & Outfeed Table / Workbench with Systainer Storage | How To Build - YouTube

    Comparing with the classic French/English style workbench with the holes on the tabletop, I see this modern t-track table maybe more versatile but at the same time less robust. I know it doesn't completely replace everything, like I still need the vices at the front and on the side of the table but maybe it replaced the multiple holes. Not 100% with this idea but I wonder what you guys think and if you see any other pros and cons.

    Thanks

  12. #11
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Hi BobL,
    I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that a top thicker than about 70 mm is more about the top having enough thickness to adequately wedge a holdfast for work holding. Additional mass (i.e. tops 120 mm thick) is required when using Southern Yellow Pine
    Makes sense although I suspect timbers with greater crush resistance etc could work equally as well over shorter distances - have to think about this as the coefficient of friction has to come into play sooner or later. Another thing to test

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sydney
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    749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Hi BobL,
    I could well be wrong, but my understanding is that a top thicker than about 70 mm is more about the top having enough thickness to adequately wedge a holdfast for work holding. Additional mass (i.e. tops 120 mm thick) is required when using Southern Yellow Pine
    The traditional French workbenches Schwarz takes inspiration from use massive European oak slaps for the top - some up to 150mm thick. Oak has a density similar to the average Ozzy hardwood at around 800kg/cubic metre- eg Alpine Ash is less dense, Mountain Ash about the same as Oak, Flooded Gum is less dense, Blue Gum about the same as Oak - maybe a bit denser, Spotted Gum significantly more dense.

    I think you are right abut hold-fasts Ian - I recall seeing some tests done a long time back, and if I recall correctly, it was the angle that the shaft made in the bench-top as it seated that seemed important. Thin bench-tops certainly did not work out well in that test. The super thick tops Shwarz now seemd to prefer seem well suited to the massive holdfasts he also now uses - these have a shaft about 25mm thick, as opposed to the 19mm ones that are more common. I prefer the 19mm system as there are lots of accessories available for these.

    I think that the thickness is also about absorbing shock & vibration. With a thick top you will in effect have a "dead blow" surface.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    Brisbane, Australia
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    I can assure you a 90mm top with white pine will have issues. Holdfast (Gramercy) from HNT Gordon did not work at all. Working a little after roughing up.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Caroline Springs, VIC
    Posts
    1,645

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    My joinery bench has a 75mm thick Tas oak top. I use Gramercy holdfast with it. I applied a small chamfer to the underside of the dog holes to allow the holdfast to angle over further, creating more of a locking force. At 75mm thick, they were slipping out pretty easily. I also roughed up the shafts of the holdfasts with 80 grit sandpaper.

    A thicker top adds overall mass to the workbench, preventing it from walking across the floor when planing, or toppling over when nudged from the side. Thicker tops are also much more stable than thin bits of paper tops, the primary reason for a thicker top.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    In between houses
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    1,784

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    Don't buy timber from Bunnings, it's all rubbish. have a look at the thread with my bench build, might give you a few ideas.

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